Tomorrow's World - with Emma Kolasinska

[00:00:00] Happy? I've pressed record as well. Oh my gosh, we're ready to go. So exciting. Series two here we come. Let's battle our way through the intro that we always screw up.

[00:00:09] It's my favourite bit.

[00:00:11] Quiet on set.

[00:00:14] Running up and action.

[00:00:18] All I knew is I wanted to try and understand the way the world works, the natural world.

[00:00:25] Explore, pick up some of your new questions.

[00:00:29] Science is the storytelling of our time.

[00:00:33] So me storytelling has always been the way to leave sorrow.

[00:00:40] Cut!

[00:00:41] Hello and welcome to series two of Who Moved the Tortoise, a podcast about the science and wildlife films that have inspired people.

[00:00:49] I'm Kate Dooley

[00:00:50] And I'm Alex Hemingway.

[00:00:52] In each episode we invite someone from the world of science or the media to share the thing that inspired them most.

[00:00:58] It could be anything, fiction, comedy, documentary, animation, whatever.

[00:01:03] The only rule at Tortoise HQ is that it has to have some kind of science or wildlife content.

[00:01:09] This time we're talking to video FX executive producer Emma Kolasinska.

[00:01:14] Emma began her career as an actor graduating from theatre school.

[00:01:18] But she soon moved behind the camera into production and post-production for TV and advertising.

[00:01:23] Stepping into the world of VFX was a natural one through post-production

[00:01:27] and she has executive produced VFX on some of the biggest series on television

[00:01:31] including The Crown, Blue Planet and The Solar System.

[00:01:35] In her very career she's been no stranger to odd conversations.

[00:01:39] She's acted the iconic Romeo and Juliet love scene hanging upside down from the balcony

[00:01:43] with Romeo trying to push her back to safety.

[00:01:46] And now, even though she's in the safety of a VFX studio

[00:01:49] she's had to navigate discussions about hyenas seaman and monkey testicles.

[00:01:54] Emma's choice is a 1989 episode of the long-running BBC series Tomorrow's World.

[00:02:30] So the first question we usually start with is how difficult was it to choose something as your inspiration?

[00:02:37] It was quite difficult because I didn't start natural history and science wasn't where I started in life.

[00:02:44] So trying to find something that combined the two was quite tricky.

[00:02:49] But then Judith Hand just kept popping in my head

[00:02:53] because she was quite a strong independent female growing up

[00:02:57] and there wasn't very many of them in the 80s, right?

[00:03:00] So I thought of her and her big 80s hairdo

[00:03:05] and then here we are.

[00:03:07] And her big 80s shoulder pads.

[00:03:08] I think she was one of the first science presenters on TV, on the BBC.

[00:03:15] I couldn't really find anyone else who was.

[00:03:18] So please do write in and let us know if there is anyone else but I couldn't find anyone else.

[00:03:22] No, I couldn't and she was brilliant.

[00:03:24] So well-spoken and strong and intelligent and charismatic and drew you in.

[00:03:33] You were really interested in her stories and her science

[00:03:36] and it made it interesting for all ages.

[00:03:39] So as a nine-year-old, if I really remembered her through to now, you know, she must have been good.

[00:03:46] She's still speaking.

[00:03:47] Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:47] You can still hire her.

[00:03:48] Yeah, she still works doing science communications.

[00:03:51] Yeah.

[00:03:52] Brilliant.

[00:03:52] There must be something about that period of time

[00:03:55] and that gang of people that were presenting Tomorrow's World at that time

[00:03:57] because they're really memorable for me as well.

[00:03:59] This episode was broadcast on the 12th of December, 89.

[00:04:04] Yeah.

[00:04:05] And we think what 7 p.m. ish.

[00:04:07] I think about seven o'clock.

[00:04:08] So I imagine I was-

[00:04:09] Before Top of the Pops.

[00:04:10] It nearly have been bedtime.

[00:04:11] So I imagine I was keeping really quiet

[00:04:15] so my mum wouldn't remember I was there to send me to bed.

[00:04:18] Is probably why I would have been watching.

[00:04:20] But watching, I was like, why would I have kept watching and not preferred to go upstairs?

[00:04:25] And actually, it's quite playful, isn't it?

[00:04:28] They're playing with adult toys like windsurfing machines and toys in the home.

[00:04:35] So it is like adults playing.

[00:04:37] So I imagine that would have drawn me in.

[00:04:39] They do go into some science engineering how things work content, don't they?

[00:04:44] Yeah.

[00:04:44] So they explain things to you in a really simple way.

[00:04:48] Yeah.

[00:04:48] It's fast paced.

[00:04:50] It's like modern music.

[00:04:52] So it just chugs along really fast and nicely, doesn't it?

[00:04:56] So it keeps you interested, you know?

[00:04:57] And it plays on your imagination.

[00:04:59] Is this what our future is going to look like?

[00:05:01] Because as a child, you're always imagining what the future on next week

[00:05:04] or next year could look like.

[00:05:06] And I think it plays it really well.

[00:05:08] So you're nine years old.

[00:05:09] What are you interested in?

[00:05:10] Where do you think your life's going at this point?

[00:05:12] Because I get the impression that science wasn't necessarily your thing at this point.

[00:05:16] No.

[00:05:17] So what was motivating you and where did you think you were going?

[00:05:19] So at nine, I was living in Huddersfield.

[00:05:24] I'm one of five, so I was in pretty chaotic household.

[00:05:29] I'd found just found music.

[00:05:31] I was a drummer in lots of orchestras.

[00:05:33] So I was going to music centers all of the time and drama.

[00:05:37] I think I was trying to find my own thing.

[00:05:40] All five of us are really very different.

[00:05:43] And I was naturally going down a creative route with drama and music.

[00:05:48] But yeah, I wasn't intelligent enough for science.

[00:05:52] Still not intelligent enough for science from telling us.

[00:05:55] But that's what I think the joy of tomorrow's world is.

[00:05:57] I mean, did you watch that and did you feel like you were going along with it?

[00:06:01] Like even watching it now, like you watch it, do you kind of get what they're talking about?

[00:06:05] 100%.

[00:06:05] And it doesn't feel like it's dumbed down at all.

[00:06:07] No, no, it's not dumbed down at all.

[00:06:09] But even I couldn't understand.

[00:06:12] In fact, when we're making programs of them, even now, I'll say to producers,

[00:06:16] if I understand it, then you're fine.

[00:06:18] Your audience.

[00:06:19] Do you not think that's a really useful role to play on a public?

[00:06:22] To be stupid.

[00:06:23] Yeah, no, it's really useful for everyone.

[00:06:25] I didn't mean it like that.

[00:06:26] No, I think you don't think you understand the science.

[00:06:29] That's what's amazing about that's what I've realized.

[00:06:31] I think working in TV is even though I did science now working with people who say,

[00:06:37] Oh, no, I don't get the science.

[00:06:38] Actually they're super bright people and they do.

[00:06:41] They can get it.

[00:06:42] It's just teachers or scientists have a way of communicating that makes them feel like they don't.

[00:06:48] But they never got it when they were in school and so that stays with them.

[00:06:51] And actually it should be open to everyone.

[00:06:54] Well, I think part of that is because you're learning statically in a book with words.

[00:07:00] Once you put it into pictures or stand up or getting people moving with ideas,

[00:07:06] then it comes to life.

[00:07:07] And I think that's what's helped me in TV.

[00:07:10] If I could see the words and it doesn't make sense.

[00:07:13] If we get that moving in a creative way, especially in visual effects where most of the time

[00:07:19] showing something that you can't do on location.

[00:07:23] So if we can tell these stories and I can understand then that's a beautiful thing

[00:07:28] because other people can understand.

[00:07:30] Do you think that's part of your acting coming in?

[00:07:31] Do you think kind of movement helps you?

[00:07:35] There used to be a really brilliant thing called creative partnerships.

[00:07:39] It was a labor initiative where they put together in schools a creative person with a science teacher

[00:07:46] or a history teacher and they would have a module that they would teach in a different way.

[00:07:52] So for science, a dancer came in and they took everybody into the football field

[00:07:57] and said, right, everybody stand together in the middle.

[00:08:00] Bang! Everybody run out.

[00:08:01] Right, we've had the big bang.

[00:08:03] You are now the solar system.

[00:08:04] And then gave everybody a balloon for the different planets and got everyone to start walking

[00:08:10] and everybody clicked and went, ah, this is the solar system.

[00:08:14] This is how it worked.

[00:08:15] You just don't get that in a book.

[00:08:18] Yeah.

[00:08:20] I did apologize to my mom for having paid for drama school

[00:08:22] and then never gone down that road but I use it every day.

[00:08:26] Good evening and welcome to the studio.

[00:08:28] A year ago we told you about toxins in FIX.

[00:08:32] Since then the government has been testing them but is the test adequate?

[00:08:37] Also this evening, the house of the future.

[00:08:40] We'll be asking experts how they think we'll be living in 2020.

[00:08:45] In Japan, Peter visits the world's first electronic art gallery

[00:08:49] and back in Britain, Howard experiments with a new way of diving.

[00:08:53] Should we go back to tomorrow's world as an entity?

[00:08:56] It was sort of ubiquitous all throughout our childhoods, 1400 episodes.

[00:09:02] Wow.

[00:09:02] Do you remember watching it, Kate?

[00:09:04] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:09:05] And I was asking round people like what were their favorite moments

[00:09:07] because I feel like everyone has something they remembered,

[00:09:11] whether it's the jam on the CD and I remember something which feels quite embarrassing.

[00:09:16] I remember the one about they had this gel that they could put on teeth

[00:09:20] that would stop you getting so many cavities

[00:09:23] because I've got tons of fillings that I got when I was a kid.

[00:09:26] So that's the bit that I remember.

[00:09:28] Mine was the CD funnily enough.

[00:09:30] No way!

[00:09:30] Yeah, this amazing indestructible technology that was coming along.

[00:09:34] I'd really stick it in my head that.

[00:09:35] It was wonderful watching it back

[00:09:37] because I've not watched an episode of Tomorrow's World for years

[00:09:39] but it did have in it two examples of a classic Tomorrow's World trope

[00:09:43] which was the perils of live TV and things going wrong.

[00:09:47] But first of all, Peter's windsurfing with a Canadian simulator

[00:09:51] that doesn't need any wind at all.

[00:09:54] What you need is all the skills you can muster

[00:09:57] because with this simulator you can program in the exact wind and wave conditions

[00:10:01] that will tally with your level of competence,

[00:10:05] which is why I've got it set at just one above flat calm.

[00:10:08] But to really give it a workout,

[00:10:10] we have with us the UK windsurfing champion Dave Hackford.

[00:10:14] Good luck, Dave.

[00:10:16] Oh, my fingers cut out.

[00:10:18] We've had a few power surges in the studio during the course of the day

[00:10:21] and we've had a few problems with this

[00:10:23] but we will endeavour to get it going.

[00:10:26] It did give me palpitations thinking,

[00:10:28] oh my God, imagine that was you.

[00:10:30] The windsurfing machine broke within about five seconds.

[00:10:32] Yeah, but he was trying to fix it live.

[00:10:35] I mean, there's a whole level of intelligence there

[00:10:38] that I've never seen on set before.

[00:10:40] I can't imagine a presenter start playing with a machine

[00:10:44] to get it working on live TV.

[00:10:46] Yeah, a consummate professional.

[00:10:47] Just kept chatting away, really relaxed.

[00:10:50] I didn't realise it was live for some honest until that moment.

[00:10:53] It was live from, I think, much of its run.

[00:10:55] There was a section towards the end where it wasn't

[00:10:57] and then it became great.

[00:10:58] Yeah, when it started fiddling,

[00:10:59] I think with the, when it started getting less ratings

[00:11:01] because it was like 13 million people would tune in

[00:11:03] but this is in the early days

[00:11:05] when there were less TV channels to watch, right?

[00:11:06] So it was very popular.

[00:11:08] And before top of the pops,

[00:11:09] then you get a much broader audience, don't you?

[00:11:11] It's for adults and kids.

[00:11:13] So it's real family watching.

[00:11:14] Everyone can watch it together.

[00:11:16] When it started losing ratings,

[00:11:18] they started playing with the format

[00:11:19] and they lost the studio element,

[00:11:20] they lost the live element and so on

[00:11:22] and then it died a sad little death.

[00:11:24] Yeah, I'm going to,

[00:11:25] I'm afraid I'm going to repeat myself actually

[00:11:27] because I've already mentioned this story before

[00:11:29] on this very podcast

[00:11:30] but I think the first letter of complaint

[00:11:32] I ever wrote in any context

[00:11:36] was...

[00:11:36] Is that kind of guy?

[00:11:37] Yeah.

[00:11:38] The other, I can remember writing

[00:11:39] was to the BBC when Tomorrow's World was cancelled

[00:11:42] and I was thinking about it

[00:11:44] and thinking what a precocious little annoying teenager

[00:11:47] I must have been to do that

[00:11:49] and then when you look up the date

[00:11:51] that Tomorrow's World was cancelled,

[00:11:52] it was 2003.

[00:11:53] So I must have been 22 when I wrote the letter.

[00:11:55] So I was a fully,

[00:11:56] supposedly a fully functioning human adult

[00:11:59] but I did, but you know...

[00:12:01] Did you fax that

[00:12:02] or did you...

[00:12:03] You were skiing on a typewriter.

[00:12:05] I mean, I...

[00:12:05] But joking aside,

[00:12:07] it must have, you know,

[00:12:09] because at that time

[00:12:10] I'd done a science degree by then

[00:12:11] and was, I think,

[00:12:13] doing a post-grad journalism,

[00:12:15] broadcast journalism course

[00:12:16] and I'd always very much been

[00:12:18] the sort of person who was desperate

[00:12:20] to be involved in some way

[00:12:22] in how science is represented in the media

[00:12:24] and I think I must have been quite angry

[00:12:26] that something that's piped into

[00:12:28] millions of homes every week

[00:12:30] with wonderful kind of science and tech content

[00:12:32] was just going to be slashed and gone

[00:12:34] and not there again.

[00:12:35] But I don't...

[00:12:36] Having watched it again,

[00:12:37] you know, do we think

[00:12:38] we're missing something like that

[00:12:39] or do you think it was of its time?

[00:12:40] I do think something like that

[00:12:42] now would be useful

[00:12:44] because I think there's so much

[00:12:46] new technology and it's moving very quickly

[00:12:48] and there's so much fake news

[00:12:51] of what is and what isn't.

[00:12:53] So actually, it might be useful

[00:12:55] now to help

[00:12:56] a list of fears people have around technology

[00:12:59] or climate change

[00:13:01] or what's going on in the world.

[00:13:03] I mean, they were talking about climate change then

[00:13:04] and we've done absolutely nothing.

[00:13:06] All these incredible examples

[00:13:07] of what people could do in their homes

[00:13:10] and, you know, we have done nothing.

[00:13:12] Our homes have not changed.

[00:13:15] What are going to be the biggest changes

[00:13:17] in our homes by 2020?

[00:13:19] Will the house of the future

[00:13:20] protect the environment?

[00:13:22] And what new technology

[00:13:23] do researchers think we'll be living with?

[00:13:26] So the idea is once all

[00:13:28] the clutter of technology has gone

[00:13:29] you'll be able to furnish your rooms

[00:13:31] in any style you like.

[00:13:33] You won't actually be able to see the technology

[00:13:35] but it will be there

[00:13:36] doing its job without getting in your way.

[00:13:40] That means the lights automatically switch off

[00:13:42] and on as you walk between rooms

[00:13:45] and the home learns how bright you like them.

[00:13:48] A simple command gives you music

[00:13:49] perhaps piped in from a sound library.

[00:13:51] Bach, please.

[00:13:52] Shall we talk about that segment a bit more, actually?

[00:13:54] Yeah, it was a brilliant segment.

[00:13:56] They've built this house on the set

[00:13:58] which looked like a house from the 1960s.

[00:14:00] They're presenting this and filming it in the 1980s,

[00:14:03] late 1980s.

[00:14:04] Yeah.

[00:14:05] But it's supposed to be the house of the future

[00:14:07] and some of those things have come to pass

[00:14:09] and others less so.

[00:14:11] I was surprised at how many of those things

[00:14:13] had come to pass, actually.

[00:14:15] So one was like a Google speaker or Alexa type

[00:14:19] thing where you would walk into a room

[00:14:21] and you could say the music that you want to hear

[00:14:23] which obviously does happen.

[00:14:25] Can they understand your accent?

[00:14:27] They don't understand my accent.

[00:14:28] My children laugh at me constantly

[00:14:30] because it just doesn't understand nor then.

[00:14:32] We've just got rid of all of our Alexa's.

[00:14:34] We're not wanting too much of that sort of tech in the house, actually.

[00:14:36] So what do you do? Have you got cassettes back?

[00:14:39] What do you do? But literally, what do you do?

[00:14:41] I just perform live now.

[00:14:42] That's what I do.

[00:14:45] So a simple command could turn a window into a wall

[00:14:49] and you could decorate it how you want

[00:14:52] or it could be a television or a computer screen.

[00:14:56] Well, that may be a little futuristic

[00:14:58] or too expensive for most people.

[00:14:59] Why don't we use that?

[00:15:01] That's really good technology and why isn't it used?

[00:15:03] Modern aircraft.

[00:15:04] Is it the 787 and another one

[00:15:05] you have a button instead of a window shade

[00:15:07] that instantly blacks out your window?

[00:15:10] But we don't have that in the home yet.

[00:15:11] Do you need a car?

[00:15:12] Is that why?

[00:15:13] You have a current going through the glass

[00:15:15] and that makes it clear or opaque.

[00:15:17] So some fancy hotels have them.

[00:15:19] But we have a different kind of version.

[00:15:21] We have liquid crystal displays on our phones

[00:15:23] and iPads and computers

[00:15:25] and so it's come to us in a slightly different way

[00:15:28] but now that is everywhere.

[00:15:30] So that was true.

[00:15:32] What did they get wrong?

[00:15:33] What haven't we got now?

[00:15:35] We do have some automatic lights.

[00:15:37] You come into a room and you can say this,

[00:15:39] lighting, that, lighting.

[00:15:40] So some people have that.

[00:15:41] Electricity in the walls

[00:15:42] and you can just put something

[00:15:44] against a wall anywhere and charge it up.

[00:15:46] I mean how dangerous is that?

[00:15:49] Your walls alive?

[00:15:49] Can you imagine a kid just wandering around?

[00:15:51] Oh your walls alive.

[00:15:53] Brilliant.

[00:15:54] Actually, you know,

[00:15:55] I thought to predict wireless charging

[00:15:56] which we do have in certain...

[00:15:58] I was surprised that it wasn't far off, was it?

[00:16:01] Yeah, no for sure, for sure.

[00:16:03] Climate change that didn't do so well.

[00:16:05] We knew so much that we didn't act on.

[00:16:07] I keep feeling really sad

[00:16:09] that I keep seeing the same stories

[00:16:11] throughout my lifetime

[00:16:13] that we know we're not acting on the important bits.

[00:16:17] So true.

[00:16:18] I feel like we've had three or four things now

[00:16:20] and this is one of them on the podcast

[00:16:21] where they talk about climate change

[00:16:23] in very bold and stark terms

[00:16:26] and 30, 40 years ago

[00:16:29] when nothing's been done about it.

[00:16:30] It's not like these issues weren't discussed.

[00:16:33] It's just we just keep talking about them.

[00:16:36] Yeah.

[00:16:37] Someone crack a joke?

[00:16:38] I know.

[00:16:40] The diving thing.

[00:16:41] It looked like a condom.

[00:16:42] There you go.

[00:16:43] That's a joke for you.

[00:16:43] The diving thing.

[00:16:52] I've recently taken up the sport of scuba diving

[00:16:55] and it really is a fantastic experience.

[00:16:58] The only thing I'm not too keen on though

[00:17:00] is the weight of all the equipment

[00:17:02] you have to look around.

[00:17:03] It really isn't the sort of kit

[00:17:05] you can stuff into a bag

[00:17:06] and carry it underneath your arm.

[00:17:08] I'm going to test out a new piece of equipment

[00:17:11] that's much lighter than scuba gear.

[00:17:13] In fact, the whole thing fits in this bag.

[00:17:23] What is that about?

[00:17:24] So every time they moved their legs

[00:17:26] it pumped air from a big kind of balloon type thing

[00:17:31] that was sat on the water.

[00:17:33] I mean if you stopped swimming

[00:17:35] you were going to die.

[00:17:37] How does that work?

[00:17:38] Yeah, I think that's one of those examples

[00:17:40] of technologies they're like

[00:17:41] this looks cool, we'll just put it in

[00:17:43] and it's the right kind of way

[00:17:45] that the presenter explains how things work

[00:17:48] that you go, yeah, this is not really going to fly.

[00:17:51] I mean, a death trap.

[00:17:52] I thought the item was going to end with

[00:17:53] and Howard Stableford was never seen again.

[00:17:56] But as a child looking at that

[00:17:58] shiny plastic thinking, is he going to live?

[00:18:01] That would hook you wouldn't it?

[00:18:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:18:02] That would make you want.

[00:18:03] It's fun.

[00:18:04] For over a hundred years

[00:18:06] the dominant way of capturing pictures

[00:18:08] still or moving has been on film.

[00:18:10] Pete has been to Japan

[00:18:12] to see how films electronic rivals are developing.

[00:18:27] There's a technological war on

[00:18:29] in the world of taking pictures

[00:18:30] between film on the one hand

[00:18:32] and video on the other.

[00:18:34] But this camera could be a more serious

[00:18:36] long-term rival.

[00:18:38] It uses a memory card.

[00:18:40] It records the image digitally

[00:18:42] but at this stage it is just a prototype

[00:18:45] and even the manufacturers don't know

[00:18:47] whether it'll ever be a serious commercial success.

[00:18:51] There is however a more immediate threat to film

[00:18:53] at least in the world of moving pictures.

[00:18:56] It's called the high definition video system

[00:18:59] or high vision.

[00:19:00] They started that scene with him taking

[00:19:03] lots of pictures on his camera

[00:19:04] like BBC One prime time.

[00:19:06] You're actually doing something quite cool here

[00:19:08] with Howard telling the story which was fun.

[00:19:10] I didn't realise that HD

[00:19:12] started in Japan.

[00:19:15] Yeah, so NHK are really the

[00:19:18] they're the ones that push

[00:19:19] a lot of the broadcast tech forward

[00:19:21] and they still do.

[00:19:22] So they were doing HD

[00:19:24] before anyone else was.

[00:19:26] They were doing

[00:19:26] I think they've got a feeling

[00:19:28] and I can't remember which Olympics it was

[00:19:29] it could have been London

[00:19:30] it could have been Rio.

[00:19:32] They were broadcasting domestically

[00:19:34] in I think 8K

[00:19:35] Wow.

[00:19:37] The Olympics before

[00:19:38] I don't think anyone is doing that at the moment.

[00:19:40] So yeah, NHK have always been

[00:19:43] really at the forefront

[00:19:44] of pushing broadcast tech

[00:19:46] and it was really interesting to see

[00:19:47] an example of that from 30-odd years ago.

[00:19:50] I think it's quite easy to judge

[00:19:52] a 30-odd-year-old TV show quite harshly

[00:19:55] with the benefit of hindsight

[00:19:56] but that Japan item

[00:19:58] about photographic and film technology

[00:20:00] really was really interesting

[00:20:02] and it felt really like a snapshot

[00:20:04] of the world on the cusp

[00:20:07] of a great revolution.

[00:20:09] So he had a prototype digital stills camera

[00:20:12] that had these amazing things

[00:20:13] and called memory cards

[00:20:15] but no one knows whether this

[00:20:17] tech will ever take off

[00:20:18] and of course you're watching it thinking

[00:20:19] hey, you know, you really were

[00:20:21] you were tapping into something there

[00:20:22] that was about to explode.

[00:20:24] Well for natural history especially

[00:20:26] shooting with memory cards

[00:20:29] and not with film

[00:20:30] must have revolutionised

[00:20:31] the amount you could do in the field

[00:20:35] was huge for this industry

[00:20:37] and actually working in post-production

[00:20:40] completely changed everything.

[00:20:43] I remember working on Umatics

[00:20:45] do you know what Umatics are?

[00:20:47] They're a type of tip

[00:20:48] so that my first jobs were with

[00:20:50] these huge Umatics tips

[00:20:52] that were run around so hard

[00:20:54] they were massive and that's why you had runners

[00:20:56] and then to now we will just sit

[00:20:58] and upload and it'll be gone in minutes

[00:21:00] it's completely changed how

[00:21:02] the post-world functions.

[00:21:04] It's an interesting question as to whether you think

[00:21:06] it's changed slightly the way we shoot stuff

[00:21:09] because I remember like lugging

[00:21:11] you know, backpacks full of tapes

[00:21:13] from some far-flung corner of the world

[00:21:15] obviously we went from film where

[00:21:17] every reel counted to tape where

[00:21:19] you still have to be quite careful about how much you shot

[00:21:21] so that you could at least carry it home

[00:21:23] again to a world where everything is fully digital

[00:21:26] and you can just keep shooting forever

[00:21:27] because it'll fit on a hard drive

[00:21:29] do you have a sense of whether that's changed anything

[00:21:31] I feel like it's quite easy to be a bit lazy

[00:21:34] um, natural history I think is a bit different

[00:21:36] because you always want the opportunity

[00:21:38] to keep shooting and keep shooting

[00:21:40] It's changed with natural history

[00:21:42] use of VFX

[00:21:43] we normally for visual effects

[00:21:46] would want a natural history or science

[00:21:48] filmmaker to shoot a little bit differently

[00:21:50] than they normally would shoot

[00:21:52] so we'd probably want you to shoot a little bit bigger

[00:21:54] so we've got more information to play with

[00:21:57] so the conversations I have are you going to shoot

[00:21:59] for 6, 8K depending on the story

[00:22:02] that they're wanting to tell so

[00:22:04] because you've got more technology to play with

[00:22:06] more technology in your arsenal

[00:22:08] then it does

[00:22:11] change things there

[00:22:12] I mean I'm quite passionate and I'd love to

[00:22:15] help more natural history

[00:22:17] and science filmmakers film better

[00:22:20] for post-production and visual effects

[00:22:22] because it's just not a language

[00:22:24] that's taught it seems

[00:22:26] so I do lots of master classes

[00:22:28] when I start a big project

[00:22:30] so that we're all

[00:22:32] starting with the same glossary of terms

[00:22:35] so people feel empowered to make decisions

[00:22:37] and we'll sit down and talk about

[00:22:39] you know what size are you going to shoot

[00:22:42] when you're on the field

[00:22:43] how much storage have you got

[00:22:45] have you got any time to shoot for visual effects

[00:22:47] we have loads of really big technical conversations

[00:22:50] that would never have happened

[00:22:53] if you just had a bit of film

[00:22:56] in the field so it has changed things massively

[00:22:59] so what would you say

[00:23:00] what are the headlines then

[00:23:03] so it depends on what the component is

[00:23:07] and it depends on what you want to shoot

[00:23:09] if you were filming

[00:23:11] an animal say it

[00:23:13] and it's got a tag on it

[00:23:15] and you'd know you'd want that tag removing

[00:23:17] I would be saying

[00:23:20] shoot sharp

[00:23:21] so you've got as much information

[00:23:23] as you can so you'd be aware of motion blur

[00:23:26] shoot a bit bigger if you can

[00:23:29] so we've got information

[00:23:30] make sure the computer

[00:23:33] would be able to track a shot when you got back

[00:23:35] so for that you need something static in the frame

[00:23:38] so my computer knows where your camera is going

[00:23:41] and where the object is going

[00:23:43] I mean we could go down a rabbit hole for hours in this

[00:23:46] so if you were wanting to place

[00:23:47] something 3D into the scene

[00:23:50] there's a whole other

[00:23:52] level of detail that we'd need

[00:23:54] so that we could marry our 3D

[00:23:56] with what's been shot so they would sit together well

[00:23:58] so things like lens data

[00:24:00] exactly, everybody loves doing a lens grid

[00:24:03] it drives you all bonkers

[00:24:04] but it's really necessary information

[00:24:06] if you want it to look authentic at the end

[00:24:09] the way we're all VFX

[00:24:10] and filmmakers are working

[00:24:13] is exactly the same

[00:24:15] we've just got a different glossary of terms

[00:24:17] so I feel really passionately about bringing us all together

[00:24:20] all of us want to do is create something beautiful

[00:24:23] that goes out on air

[00:24:24] and how do you approach storytelling

[00:24:27] in VFX? Do you think you approach storytelling

[00:24:29] the same way as the directors do

[00:24:31] or do you think you approach storytelling

[00:24:33] from a different perspective

[00:24:35] because of your VFX background

[00:24:36] or even because of your acting background?

[00:24:38] it's very different for us of what

[00:24:40] stories we're asked to tell

[00:24:42] so sometimes we'll be doing one

[00:24:44] or two shots within a whole episode

[00:24:47] so then we're

[00:24:49] very much following the director's vision

[00:24:51] if we're doing

[00:24:52] a full series

[00:24:54] then I would say

[00:24:57] it's really difficult

[00:24:58] to work out a director's vision

[00:25:00] versus what is technically possible

[00:25:03] and the best way to work that out

[00:25:06] is on a piece of paper I think

[00:25:07] it's the cheapest

[00:25:08] we're out there

[00:25:10] getting into a computer

[00:25:11] let's sit down

[00:25:13] let's roughly start

[00:25:15] with a storyboard and work this out

[00:25:18] how is it going to move

[00:25:19] how is it going to transition

[00:25:20] how is it going to evolve

[00:25:21] so I think sitting together

[00:25:24] and having conversations is still

[00:25:26] the best way forward on any project

[00:25:28] and so where do these difficult conversations

[00:25:30] about hyenas semen

[00:25:32] and monkey testicles come in?

[00:25:36] I think that was all in

[00:25:38] for Night on Earth

[00:25:40] for Plimsel

[00:25:41] and I think there was hyenas semen

[00:25:44] but they shot on a Selix camera

[00:25:46] so you've just kind of got this white

[00:25:48] spur in the middle of

[00:25:50] can you get rid of it?

[00:25:51] Delightful

[00:25:52] so you were trying to get rid of it

[00:25:55] we were trying to get rid of it

[00:25:56] but the conversations of how to get rid of it

[00:25:59] was just

[00:26:00] the conversations I had at work

[00:26:02] every day is bonkers at work

[00:26:04] I'm so lucky to have such a silly job

[00:26:07] that it is a silly job

[00:26:09] I'm not in a hospital

[00:26:10] no one's going to die at the end of it

[00:26:11] it's such a privileged position to be in

[00:26:14] where I start talking about

[00:26:15] all the monkey testicles are a bit big in shot

[00:26:18] what do we do about that?

[00:26:19] I mean, ridiculous, brilliant

[00:26:22] I mean it's where the title of this podcast

[00:26:24] which we won't go into detail now

[00:26:25] but when we were hunting around for titles

[00:26:28] we kind of dipped into that well

[00:26:31] of the ridiculous conversations you have

[00:26:33] when you do this job

[00:26:34] and the title of this podcast is one such phrase

[00:26:37] many edits where body parts

[00:26:40] have been too prominent

[00:26:41] shall we say?

[00:26:42] and just feedback

[00:26:43] at one point we were going to have in our toilet wall

[00:26:46] at work all the ridiculous feedback

[00:26:48] we get

[00:26:50] there's too many stars in that shot

[00:26:53] what? there's no stars in that shot

[00:26:55] and I'll rack in our brains

[00:26:56] like what are they talking about?

[00:26:58] have you cleaned your monitor?

[00:27:00] oh no, I've cleaned the monitor

[00:27:02] there's no stars in that shot

[00:27:04] I mean, we have ridiculous conversations

[00:27:06] it's brilliant

[00:27:07] that's amazing

[00:27:10] will that timecode still be there

[00:27:12] when it's broadcast?

[00:27:13] is that what it's going to look like

[00:27:16] when it's finished?

[00:27:17] why is that grey?

[00:27:20] that's not a stupid question

[00:27:21] you should need to be able to understand that

[00:27:24] and that's why I do master classes

[00:27:25] so nobody feels stupid

[00:27:27] because if somebody feels stupid

[00:27:29] generally they're getting frustrated

[00:27:31] and angry and nobody wants that

[00:27:33] it works where if you just had

[00:27:36] someone sit with you for 10 minutes

[00:27:37] and said

[00:27:39] this is visual effects, this is how it works

[00:27:41] this is what it's going to look like

[00:27:43] this is what you should expect to see

[00:27:44] you feel at ease

[00:27:46] and able to make bigger decisions

[00:27:48] I think it's really important

[00:27:49] super useful because the effects in our world of science

[00:27:53] and natural history

[00:27:54] there are some things you can't film

[00:27:56] no, and this something's not safe

[00:27:59] to film and timing

[00:28:00] there's loads of ways that visual effects

[00:28:02] is useful but the media

[00:28:05] sometimes isn't very helpful

[00:28:06] there's a big backlash at the minute of

[00:28:08] no CGI so big Hollywood films

[00:28:10] saying there's no CGI and it's in

[00:28:12] every single shot

[00:28:14] I feel really passionate

[00:28:16] about making sure visual effects

[00:28:18] artists are recognised even in the

[00:28:20] natural history world

[00:28:23] there's not very often

[00:28:24] generally it's called graphics

[00:28:26] because they don't want anybody to know visual effects are there

[00:28:29] and you'll generally just get the name

[00:28:31] of the company and not the artists that

[00:28:33] have worked on it so I still

[00:28:34] don't think visual effects is credited

[00:28:36] in the way it should be so I feel really passionate

[00:28:38] about putting every

[00:28:40] artist that worked on a film's name

[00:28:42] there, that's fair I think

[00:28:45] it's only just starting to happen

[00:28:46] only just so I got

[00:28:48] my first credit after 17 years

[00:28:51] in the industry on the crown

[00:28:53] after having made God knows how many

[00:29:22] programs

[00:29:25] and he said hi and then he shook my hand

[00:29:27] shook his hand

[00:29:56] let's talk about the crown

[00:29:57] what did you do?

[00:29:59] the crown approached

[00:30:01] us because

[00:30:03] Lux Turner had worked on

[00:30:06] our universe which is on Netflix

[00:30:07] which is an extraordinary series

[00:30:09] that Lux entered the

[00:30:11] universe and then how that connects with

[00:30:13] wildlife on earth

[00:30:15] and so the director

[00:30:17] of an episode had seen

[00:30:19] kind of nebulas in the universe

[00:30:21] and said that's incredible we want that

[00:30:23] for our show

[00:30:25] there was a sequence where William

[00:30:27] went to

[00:30:28] Prince William

[00:30:30] went to

[00:30:31] a space centre somewhere in America

[00:30:34] and it was at a time when

[00:30:36] his mum had passed and he was feeling quite lost

[00:30:39] and the paparazzi

[00:30:40] were at him so

[00:30:41] he was looking at the nebulas

[00:30:44] with the stars flashing and kind of life

[00:30:46] passing in front of him

[00:30:48] their producers were just

[00:30:50] lovely

[00:30:51] they really trusted us

[00:30:54] and wanted us to help tell

[00:30:56] their story but because they knew

[00:30:58] visual effects well they were able to

[00:31:00] just let us get on with our

[00:31:02] job and not worry too much

[00:31:04] it was a joy

[00:31:05] was there something in particular about

[00:31:08] working on a kind of a juggernaut

[00:31:10] of an enormous series like that that was different

[00:31:12] from other stuff you've done

[00:31:14] no it's the same process

[00:31:16] everything's got the same process

[00:31:17] they did shoot using virtual production

[00:31:20] and they did that because you get

[00:31:22] all the really lovely light

[00:31:24] and reflections in someone's eyes

[00:31:26] and on their face that you wouldn't get if it was green screen

[00:31:28] so we

[00:31:30] the production schedule

[00:31:32] is the other way around so we've built

[00:31:34] everything up front rather

[00:31:36] than at the end

[00:31:38] so it was lovely to be

[00:31:40] a part of that process and go

[00:31:42] on set and see how it

[00:31:44] works and how it'll look

[00:31:46] but the process was no different they were really

[00:31:48] lovely

[00:31:50] I'm slightly putting you on the spot

[00:31:52] but while we're talking about VFX

[00:31:54] I just wonder if there are anything recent

[00:31:56] that really stands out to you

[00:31:58] as being gold standard

[00:32:00] or anything that our listeners

[00:32:02] could seek out that really sort of

[00:32:04] demonstrates the very best of

[00:32:06] that kind of merging of VFX and

[00:32:08] the natural world

[00:32:09] You've got to understand that visual effects

[00:32:11] how much money you've got

[00:32:14] for a budget does affect things

[00:32:16] and so if you come down to natural

[00:32:18] history

[00:32:19] you're working with

[00:32:21] a Hollywood expectation

[00:32:23] without the Hollywood budget

[00:32:25] which we all know from everything

[00:32:27] we've ever made in our entire career

[00:32:28] we've probably all been in something that we've made

[00:32:30] because there's never any money there

[00:32:32] and that's fine because what makes

[00:32:34] artist bees more creative with how they have to work

[00:32:38] If you go further

[00:32:39] up the chain

[00:32:41] into film there's a film

[00:32:42] that came out last year called The Creator

[00:32:45] and while the storyline

[00:32:47] didn't do anything for me the visual effects

[00:32:49] were quite incredible

[00:32:50] The reason being that director knows

[00:32:52] visual effects really really well so he shot

[00:32:55] really cleverly

[00:32:56] and he got as much of the natural world

[00:32:59] in there as possible

[00:33:00] as either assets or back plates

[00:33:02] so assets meaning

[00:33:04] parts of buildings or things he could

[00:33:06] use in 3D and back plates

[00:33:08] meaning the environments he sat in

[00:33:10] Again not huge Hollywood but next

[00:33:13] up he shot really

[00:33:15] cleverly and had as much

[00:33:16] of the real world as possible

[00:33:19] and I think that's when it's most successful

[00:33:20] rather than full 3D builds

[00:33:23] which everyone can kind of still tell

[00:33:25] So if you're doing natural history

[00:33:27] and you're wanting to build an environment

[00:33:29] I would say collect as many plates

[00:33:31] as you can as many rushes

[00:33:33] and plates that we can put together in the computer

[00:33:35] rather than start from scratch

[00:33:37] you're probably going to get a better result

[00:33:39] but then that's time

[00:33:41] in your really tight schedule

[00:33:43] that you're never given

[00:33:45] So it's a case of again

[00:33:48] getting to a level

[00:33:49] within businesses where we

[00:33:51] can talk at budgeting and

[00:33:53] scheduling stage where you're

[00:33:55] giving much more time

[00:33:56] to make those creative choices rather than

[00:33:59] in your edit

[00:34:01] When you're in the field and you could be

[00:34:03] shooting a player or doing those lens

[00:34:05] grids that would take 5 minutes

[00:34:07] it could save you 3,000

[00:34:09] pound at the other end

[00:34:10] So if everybody understood

[00:34:12] how it worked

[00:34:14] and didn't just say fix it in post

[00:34:16] then it would be better

[00:34:18] I've seen some shockers of fix it in post

[00:34:20] I've seen a fix it in post

[00:34:22] that cost them 23,000 pounds

[00:34:24] to fix it in post

[00:34:26] I mean it still makes me feel

[00:34:28] a little bit sick on their behalf

[00:34:30] like oh I'm really sorry

[00:34:32] if you'd have moved that bag out of the shot

[00:34:34] Oh my gosh it was a bag

[00:34:36] 23,000 pound bag

[00:34:38] 23,000 bag in a craning shot

[00:34:41] through shadows

[00:34:41] and oh yeah it still

[00:34:44] makes me feel a little bit

[00:34:46] don't fix it in post just spend 5 minutes

[00:34:48] and think about it

[00:34:49] What do you think the future holds

[00:34:53] VFXWise up?

[00:34:53] Is things just going to get better and a bit cheaper

[00:34:56] Are we all going to be shooting

[00:34:58] in virtual production in a few years

[00:35:00] What are the exciting things or the new

[00:35:02] things on the horizon? Everything's shifting a lot

[00:35:04] A lot more adverts being shot

[00:35:06] with virtual production because

[00:35:08] directors and creatives can leave

[00:35:10] their decisions too much later

[00:35:11] so I'm seeing a lot of adverts going that way

[00:35:14] obviously there's the huge conversation

[00:35:15] around AI

[00:35:16] That's currently not okay to broadcast

[00:35:19] in the UK there's so many laws about it

[00:35:21] which is really good

[00:35:22] We're constantly exploring the technology

[00:35:25] I think the expectation

[00:35:27] of VFXWise will get greater

[00:35:29] so I don't think the visual effects

[00:35:31] industry will diminish

[00:35:32] because of AI

[00:35:34] I still think you'll need somebody to put in those prompts

[00:35:37] I think that

[00:35:39] it will still need

[00:35:40] people to do the bigger creative

[00:35:42] things that we're thinking about

[00:35:44] I think once we start commissioning again

[00:35:46] properly

[00:35:47] That's the biggest problem in the minute

[00:35:49] That's the biggest problem in the minute

[00:35:52] But I just think it constantly evolves

[00:35:54] and it will keep evolving

[00:35:56] but you will still need people

[00:35:58] to do what needs doing

[00:36:00] I want AI to do my washing up

[00:36:02] I don't want AI to make

[00:36:04] my TV as in

[00:36:06] instead of me doing it

[00:36:08] Well

[00:36:10] It hasn't got the nuance and it doesn't understand

[00:36:12] immersion and everything that we do

[00:36:14] is emotional storytelling so it couldn't

[00:36:16] do that if you ask it to

[00:36:18] write a script

[00:36:19] if you ask it to write a CV

[00:36:21] which I see so many CVs and

[00:36:23] instantly I can tell it's written with AI

[00:36:26] and I don't read them

[00:36:28] as much because it's that emotional connection

[00:36:31] as human beings

[00:36:32] which has got us this far

[00:36:34] and will keep us going

[00:36:36] That's what we respond to, don't we?

[00:36:38] Yeah. That's what we connect through

[00:36:39] How did you make that jump?

[00:36:41] Because you were enacting then you went into

[00:36:44] scheduling and production and then

[00:36:46] post-production and then VFX

[00:36:48] What was that journey like for you? Did it feel really natural?

[00:36:51] Or was it kind of like

[00:36:52] oh and then this happened like many of us

[00:36:54] It was completely

[00:36:56] Oh and then this happened

[00:36:57] So I

[00:36:58] from an actor I felt quite lonely as an

[00:37:02] actor, I spent loads of time touring

[00:37:04] and then I got a job

[00:37:06] at Oasis Television

[00:37:08] It used to be on Great Poultony Street

[00:37:10] as a receptionist and I learned

[00:37:12] everybody's name that walked in the building

[00:37:14] and the post-production process

[00:37:15] and then just started

[00:37:17] working my way up

[00:37:19] I worked in advertising for 15 years

[00:37:22] and then a friend went

[00:37:24] to Mainframe

[00:37:25] where I kind of started

[00:37:27] in motion graphics and visual effects

[00:37:29] and really lucky

[00:37:31] at Mainframe because Adam Jens

[00:37:33] the founder there is a really

[00:37:36] nurturing human being

[00:37:38] so there was

[00:37:40] loads of artists that came through the door

[00:37:42] as juniors and we watched them

[00:37:43] grow and flourish and

[00:37:45] he really taught me about

[00:37:47] being curious, being open

[00:37:50] exploring what was out there

[00:37:52] and I was there for I think 8 years

[00:37:54] and I don't think I would have left

[00:37:55] but life happened

[00:37:57] and I moved to Bristol

[00:37:59] and I've been there for 8 years

[00:38:01] which has been full visual effects

[00:38:03] which has been incredible

[00:38:05] I've learned so much and met so many wonderful people

[00:38:08] I feel really grateful

[00:38:10] and every day I sit

[00:38:12] we're in a room

[00:38:14] with loads of people on computers

[00:38:16] and then you walk around

[00:38:17] and look up someone's shoulder

[00:38:19] and they've just made a theatre collision

[00:38:21] do you know what I mean

[00:38:23] or just these extraordinary

[00:38:25] events

[00:38:27] in Houdini and Myron

[00:38:29] and I am constantly blown away

[00:38:31] by the amount of talent

[00:38:32] I see and it just keeps me

[00:38:34] interested. And it feels like

[00:38:37] nurturing young people is something you've

[00:38:39] continued doing in your career as well

[00:38:41] Yes so I work with

[00:38:42] AccessVFX which is a collection of about

[00:38:45] 40-50 visual effects companies

[00:38:47] in the UK and around the world

[00:38:49] set up by

[00:38:51] Simon Devereux who's at Framestore

[00:38:53] and it's about

[00:38:54] making our industry more

[00:38:56] diverse and inclusive

[00:38:58] it's very white, male,

[00:39:01] heavy as our whole industry is

[00:39:02] no offense

[00:39:03] So I started

[00:39:09] with that about 6 years ago

[00:39:11] and I've

[00:39:13] helped build

[00:39:15] a mentorship platform

[00:39:16] I've got about 16 mentees

[00:39:18] at the minute on in various stages

[00:39:21] of their career and I love it

[00:39:23] it's my favourite part

[00:39:24] of my day is helping

[00:39:26] somebody navigate their way

[00:39:28] in our industry

[00:39:30] so I kind of

[00:39:32] stay with me for some reason

[00:39:33] I've kind of become a mum

[00:39:35] I think in your career having someone say

[00:39:38] oh this has happened at work

[00:39:39] what do you think, can you help me

[00:39:41] it's nice to know you can bounce

[00:39:43] ideas off someone

[00:39:44] so I love it

[00:39:47] And especially at a time when the industry

[00:39:49] is in a lot of flux

[00:39:51] there are a lot of difficult things going on

[00:39:53] it's very spiky

[00:39:54] supporting each other is really important isn't it

[00:39:57] so it's really lovely to be able to do that

[00:39:58] Yeah it was really sad in the last week

[00:40:01] I've had two conversations with

[00:40:02] what other industry could I

[00:40:05] work in and what other industry

[00:40:06] are my skills useful for

[00:40:08] and that breaks my heart

[00:40:10] but actually I do think

[00:40:12] the pace that we work at in television

[00:40:15] and

[00:40:16] how quick we are to respond

[00:40:17] and how good we are at problem solving

[00:40:20] I think if people

[00:40:22] work in other industries how we do

[00:40:24] in this things would move a lot

[00:40:26] more smoothly actually

[00:40:27] because we're brilliant at communicating

[00:40:30] and getting things done

[00:40:32] It's clever isn't it, well that's all for tonight

[00:40:34] oh I've just got to show you this

[00:40:35] something I did earlier, next week

[00:40:37] special show the Tomorrow's World Christmas Quiz

[00:40:39] all sorts of celebrity guests

[00:40:41] so do join us for that it's going to be a riot

[00:40:44] till then goodnight

[00:40:45] Yeah so having had the chance to watch

[00:40:47] that episode of Tomorrow's World again

[00:40:49] I just wondered if you could give us a bit of context about

[00:40:51] how it felt to watch it what it means to you

[00:40:54] It's quite nostalgic isn't it

[00:40:55] watching something from being a nine year old

[00:40:58] like life was very different

[00:40:59] at nine than it is now

[00:41:01] and

[00:41:02] it made me feel safe

[00:41:05] because there's so much

[00:41:06] content out there at the minute

[00:41:09] that you can look everywhere

[00:41:10] and it made me think back

[00:41:13] to more simpler times

[00:41:15] like we'd have had a choice of three channels then

[00:41:18] but because of that

[00:41:20] because it's narrow you're learning

[00:41:21] and that's a nice thing

[00:41:23] rather than scrolling on TikTok

[00:41:25] so I had a nostalgic moment

[00:41:27] about that

[00:41:28] I had a lovely nostalgic moment

[00:41:30] moment about live tele

[00:41:32] and about

[00:41:34] beige TV looked quite beige right

[00:41:36] there was no real grade

[00:41:40] and big hairstyles

[00:41:42] and just simpler times

[00:41:44] it made me have a conversation of what would you have been having for tea

[00:41:47] when you were nine years old

[00:41:49] probably potato waffles

[00:41:51] stuff kind of thing

[00:41:52] a finda crispy pancake

[00:41:54] so it kind of

[00:41:55] I kind of went back to being nine

[00:41:57] it was kind of

[00:41:58] I was cushioned in that safety of being a child

[00:42:02] which is really nice

[00:42:04] it made me feel quite old

[00:42:06] I thought everything looked so very dated

[00:42:07] and yet we are quite

[00:42:09] I know we are

[00:42:13] thanks for bringing it in

[00:42:14] it was fun to watch

[00:42:15] and I thought it stood up really well

[00:42:17] despite being a bit dated

[00:42:18] but it was great to see it again

[00:42:20] I do think it would work now

[00:42:22] like you know there's a lot of signs telling

[00:42:25] but it's that short segment

[00:42:26] which we know that short form

[00:42:29] seems to work better that our attention spans

[00:42:31] are shorter

[00:42:32] and those little short segments by people you trust

[00:42:36] you trust Judith-Hanne

[00:42:38] if she was to tell you something you would believe her

[00:42:40] and you wouldn't be frightened

[00:42:42] and I feel like there is totally space

[00:42:45] for there is so much technological innovation

[00:42:47] at the moment

[00:42:48] compared to then there was a lot of technical innovation then

[00:42:51] but it feels like the pace of change

[00:42:53] today is even faster

[00:42:55] and future gazing now

[00:42:56] if we did what with the house of

[00:42:59] 2040 look like

[00:43:00] that would be really exciting

[00:43:03] and in 2040 we can do the podcast

[00:43:05] and look back and say how ridiculous it was again

[00:43:07] if we're still doing this

[00:43:09] my plan as Grandma

[00:43:10] just turned 100

[00:43:11] so she got her letter from the king

[00:43:15] that did come, that still happens

[00:43:17] but having conversations

[00:43:19] with her about

[00:43:20] her life

[00:43:22] and explaining what AI is

[00:43:24] I mean

[00:43:26] wow. Lose her mind?

[00:43:28] Yeah but she would love a little 10 minute segment

[00:43:30] to tell her what that is

[00:43:32] there's a whole generation that are baffled

[00:43:34] by science and they needn't be

[00:43:36] we're not telling them what it is anymore

[00:43:38] also for kids, that would work

[00:43:40] for my daughter as well as her

[00:43:42] I mean everyone would have that

[00:43:44] we've got a great idea here

[00:43:46] just keep knocking on the door of the BBC

[00:43:48] please commission it

[00:43:49] but maybe we just go to YouTube instead and do it ourselves

[00:43:52] Yeah, do you know I'm for that

[00:43:54] I'd do that

[00:43:55] I mean we could do it

[00:43:58] I can do the visual effects

[00:44:00] we're in, we're sorted

[00:44:02] Right we better end this podcast now

[00:44:03] We've got a job to do guys

[00:44:07] Thanks Emma

[00:44:09] You're very welcome