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[00:00:00] This feels like some sort of takeover that I wasn't expecting.
[00:00:05] You should have seen it coming.
[00:00:06] Endless withering production.
[00:00:18] All I knew was I wanted to try and understand the way the world works, the natural world.
[00:00:25] We explore because we are human.
[00:00:30] Science is the storytelling of our time.
[00:00:34] So me storytelling has always been the way to leave sorrow.
[00:00:42] Hello and welcome to Who Moved the Tortoise, a podcast about science and wildlife filmmaking.
[00:00:48] I'm Alex Hemingway.
[00:00:49] And I'm Kate Dooley.
[00:00:50] And as usual we're joined by someone from the world of Science and Wildlife Telly
[00:00:54] to talk about the film or TV show or other stuff that inspired them.
[00:01:00] This time we're talking to self shooting producer and director Natalie Hewitt.
[00:01:04] Over the course of her career Natalie has somehow gone from school science hater to award-winning science filmmaker.
[00:01:12] She studied drama and theatre arts at Birmingham and then completed an MA in Chinese studies at SOAS in London.
[00:01:19] On leaving she applied to be a PA and it was working on The Bang Goes The Theory Live Events team
[00:01:24] that she discovered science is actually amazing.
[00:01:28] Her directorial debut saw her spend three months filming at the Halley 6 research station in Antarctica
[00:01:33] for the BBC's Horizon which earned her a nomination at the Broadcast Awards.
[00:01:38] Since then she's filmed a campaign to bring back the bush, Google it,
[00:01:42] nearly been eaten by a bear, filmed police raids, chased category five hurricanes
[00:01:47] and perhaps the most dangerous filmed brides-to-be finding their wedding dress.
[00:01:52] It's amazing she's still here.
[00:01:54] Nat's choice for the film or TV show that inspired her is the popular BBC one series Bang Goes The Theory.
[00:02:01] So Nat, what was it that made you realise science is amazing?
[00:02:33] It's probably important to say that when I was a kid very much didn't think science was amazing.
[00:02:37] Like I have such vivid memories of being at school and just really hating science.
[00:02:42] I feel like we should probably get that on the table now.
[00:02:46] But at the beginning of the podcast I am basically a charlatan, I'm an imposter here,
[00:02:51] I'm not a scientist, I didn't like science at school, in fact I kind of hated it.
[00:02:55] I have these really vivid memories of doing my g- revising for my GCSEs and sitting with my dad
[00:03:01] and him trying to explain to me over and over again like how a current worked or something,
[00:03:08] the physics and I just remember sitting there being like,
[00:03:11] I do not understand what you're saying and this is making me annoyed because I'm like,
[00:03:15] I don't usually struggle to understand things.
[00:03:17] Just couldn't get it, just didn't understand it and started to resent it quite heavily.
[00:03:24] And I always thought listening to all these other people talk about how as a kid they were so interested in science
[00:03:29] and how the world worked and blah blah blah.
[00:03:31] And I remember as a kid I very much was like interested in people and feelings.
[00:03:37] And I was kind of like, I know.
[00:03:39] She's one of those.
[00:03:40] I was fascinated by all of that stuff and I think I didn't realise until much much later
[00:03:49] how that could intersect with science.
[00:03:52] So when I was a kid I wasn't watching Jacques Cousteau or like the Horizons I was watching
[00:03:57] and my mum tells me about six years old, the BBC did a series of Shakespeare kids films
[00:04:06] which are like animated Shakespeare films and they had did like a bunch of different things.
[00:04:10] They did Hamlet and a few different ones.
[00:04:12] And I was apparently obsessed, like completely obsessed to the point where I'd watch it every day
[00:04:17] with the puppet version of Twelfth Night.
[00:04:21] And I said my mum was like, yeah my six year old is watching Twelfth Night over and over again.
[00:04:26] Is there something wrong with her?
[00:04:27] Like what's going on? Why is she obsessed with Shakespeare?
[00:04:30] It's a young age.
[00:04:31] It is a land that breathes the tender spirit of its ruler, the Duke Orsino.
[00:04:37] He is truly a Duke of hearts and sighs fathoms deep in love with the fair countess Olivia.
[00:04:46] If music be the food of love, play on. Give me excess of it.
[00:04:58] But yeah I was, I was just really interested in people and stories.
[00:05:00] I think storytelling was the thing and I didn't realise that until much, much later on
[00:05:05] but storytelling was the thing that got me just really fascinated and interesting.
[00:05:10] So in terms of what made me realise that science was cool
[00:05:15] I think it has to be Bango's The Theory which is why I've chosen it to talk about on this podcast.
[00:05:20] The episode that you suggested that we watch was the third episode of the first series
[00:05:25] so that would have been on TV on Monday the 10th of August 2009.
[00:05:30] Give us a sense of who you were and what you were doing in August 2009.
[00:05:35] When Bango's The Theory started, I was already working at the BBC
[00:05:39] but I was working in the BBC kind of learning and campaigns department
[00:05:42] so it was an incredible department. It still exists in a slightly different form.
[00:05:46] Basically the remit for the department was to put a bunch of money towards creating campaigns,
[00:05:54] learning campaigns to go alongside big BBC programmes
[00:05:57] and those campaigns could be anything from like, you know, we wrote teachers packs
[00:06:00] to help teachers teach science in schools
[00:06:02] and we did ethical fashion shows to go alongside Blood Sweat and T-shirts
[00:06:06] which is the show that launched Stacey Dooley
[00:06:08] and so we had this whole ethical fashion show at Fashion Week in London
[00:06:11] which went alongside that show
[00:06:13] and then there was all kinds of like live events that we took around the country
[00:06:16] and I started my career at the BBC in that department
[00:06:20] and I ended up working, being given a job on the Bango's The Theory Live events
[00:06:25] and I remember when I got that job, I haven't told anyone this
[00:06:28] but I was secretly a little bit disappointed.
[00:06:31] When you say a little bit do you mean a lot?
[00:06:33] Yes because I was like, remember, refer you all back to when I said I hated science
[00:06:37] and I was like, there were all these other campaigns going on
[00:06:39] like there was the Strictly Come Dancing campaign
[00:06:41] and there was like, you know, all these events going around the country
[00:06:43] with Strictly Come Dancing and then there was, you know, the ethical fashion shows
[00:06:45] and all this kind of cool stuff
[00:06:46] and I was like, oh, I'm doing the science one
[00:06:49] and I was like, oh, I just, I don't think I like science
[00:06:51] I don't think I'm interested in it
[00:06:53] but it was also around this time that
[00:06:57] Gem Stansfield climbed the BBC building in White City using vacuum gloves
[00:07:03] This is it. Mark three on the pads, exactly the same vacuum unit
[00:07:13] I'm going to try and climb 100 feet of sheer aluminium face building
[00:07:18] I'm properly scared
[00:07:21] Physically it's a big challenge to get this probably 20 kilos of kit
[00:07:25] and me straight up 100 feet
[00:07:27] but I've got to do it
[00:07:29] like I can't bottle out in front of these guys
[00:07:31] or in fact anybody
[00:07:34] I heard that this guy was going to try and climb a building using a Hoover
[00:07:38] and I was like, well that sounds ridiculous and insane
[00:07:40] so we all went out because we were like this is mad
[00:07:42] like who does that?
[00:07:44] How do you even think that up? That's crazy
[00:07:46] so we all went out and watching him do it
[00:07:48] and I was like, this guy's crazy
[00:07:50] but this is cool, this is actually really cool
[00:07:52] and I think, you know, that's one of the things that started me watching science programs
[00:07:58] was I heard about Magnus Theory
[00:08:00] I started, you know, hearing through colleagues
[00:08:03] who were working on the events to go with the show
[00:08:05] about the kind of crazy stuff they were doing
[00:08:07] and I started actually working on those events myself
[00:08:09] I was like, oh this is changing everything I think about science
[00:08:13] and about science filmmaking and about, you know, how this works
[00:08:16] and what it is
[00:08:18] I mean that's so exciting though
[00:08:20] so you don't like science
[00:08:22] and through the excitement of going, oh wow
[00:08:25] science can let you do these amazing things
[00:08:27] what do you think it was?
[00:08:29] I was reflecting on this when I was re-watching the episode the other day
[00:08:32] I think one of the things that I think is so incredible about that series
[00:08:36] is the presenters
[00:08:38] Take Jem for example
[00:08:40] I as a kid growing up, I feel like most of the science stuff I saw on TV was like
[00:08:45] men in white coats, in labs
[00:08:48] and it was, I found it quite boring
[00:08:50] and then you've got someone like Jem who's just in a workshop
[00:08:53] covered in grease and oil and like whatever he's been up to
[00:08:56] and he's just like, experiment in play
[00:08:58] he was just like tearing stuff up and adapting stuff
[00:09:01] and using this to do something that you never thought a Hoover could do
[00:09:05] and so I think the creativity in that
[00:09:07] and also just the real getting your hands dirty
[00:09:11] and experimentation
[00:09:13] and not being afraid to fail
[00:09:16] because I think often with Jem's, I guess these call them stunts
[00:09:19] but like Jem's experiments
[00:09:21] he would go through loads of iterations of it where it wouldn't work
[00:09:24] and it was never sort of presented as a failure completely
[00:09:27] and I'm just going to try it and see what happens
[00:09:29] and see what I learn on each stage
[00:09:31] and I think that for me was a really, as a storytelling
[00:09:33] you know, it really tapped into my
[00:09:35] oh this is about telling a story
[00:09:37] this isn't just people telling me facts
[00:09:39] this is about a story of discovery
[00:09:41] and exploration and experimentation
[00:09:43] I really like that
[00:09:45] and then I think the other thing
[00:09:47] the other thing that really stuck out for me from this episode
[00:09:49] which I absolutely loved
[00:09:51] is the amount of times you hear Dr. Yang giggling
[00:09:57] oh, I'm getting there
[00:10:01] I see your muscles going through though
[00:10:08] like oh my gosh, his giggle is so good
[00:10:12] and I remember obviously working with Yang Loads
[00:10:14] and you know he's just one of those people who
[00:10:17] he is one of the cleverest men ever
[00:10:20] but he is so, he just has fun doing it
[00:10:23] you know he is great with people
[00:10:25] and his passion and his knowledge
[00:10:27] and his excitement about what he's doing
[00:10:29] and his playfulness with it
[00:10:31] you know, he's so clever
[00:10:33] this incredibly clever man but he can be playful with it
[00:10:36] and that for me was so different to anything I'd had before
[00:10:39] in terms of science programming
[00:10:41] or science filmmaking
[00:10:43] I hadn't seen anything like that before
[00:10:45] and that giggle is brilliant
[00:10:47] it's so infectious and you can see the people
[00:10:49] he's talking to on the street
[00:10:51] you can see the glee that he is feeling
[00:10:53] he's just really infectious and everyone is like
[00:10:55] oh yeah, I'll do this, I'll do some science
[00:10:57] because guy's cool, he's like having fun with it
[00:10:59] you know, I think that's great
[00:11:01] this feels like a good point actually
[00:11:03] to talk about what came before Bango's theory
[00:11:05] and how it was different
[00:11:07] and why Bango's theory kind of felt so
[00:11:09] refreshing and new at the time
[00:11:20] this new long playing record
[00:11:30] looks very similar to a video disc
[00:11:32] we've shown you before
[00:11:34] the surface is covered by a layer of transparent plastic
[00:11:36] so you don't have to worry about
[00:11:38] grubby fingers or even
[00:11:40] scratches
[00:11:42] the BBC had a flagship science show
[00:11:44] for what felt like forever
[00:11:46] and it was the show that I grew up with
[00:11:48] and that was Tomorrow's World
[00:11:50] which was around from 1968
[00:11:52] all the way through to 2003
[00:11:54] and I remember
[00:11:56] when Tomorrow's World was finally
[00:11:58] axed for the final time
[00:12:00] that felt like a huge deal because that was the BBC
[00:12:02] kind of pulling the plug on
[00:12:04] mainstream, prime time
[00:12:06] popular science content
[00:12:08] on its primary premium channel
[00:12:10] and I have to confess it is that
[00:12:12] I think it's one of the only times in my life
[00:12:14] that I have written a letter of complaint
[00:12:16] and it's the only time I've ever written to a TV station
[00:12:18] was
[00:12:20] when Tomorrow's World was cancelled
[00:12:22] and thinking about it, you know, I must have been
[00:12:24] slightly irritating, know it all teenager
[00:12:26] we've all been there
[00:12:28] except 2003, I wasn't a teenager
[00:12:30] I was 22 years old
[00:12:32] when Tomorrow's World was cancelled
[00:12:34] but joking aside, it felt like a really huge deal
[00:12:36] that the BBC was pulling the plug on
[00:12:38] what was a national institution
[00:12:40] so there was a gap
[00:12:42] and there was a gap that lasted
[00:12:44] for five or six years
[00:12:46] before they came up with
[00:12:48] Bango's The Theory which was a very, very different
[00:12:50] prospect
[00:12:52] On tonight's show
[00:12:54] Liz sinks to the bottom of the Baltic Sea
[00:12:56] I'm standing on the surface
[00:12:58] of a submarine, 80 metres
[00:13:00] at the bottom of the sea
[00:13:02] I'm off to try and save the world from plastic
[00:13:04] at my feet
[00:13:06] and Gem is going to try and climb a building
[00:13:08] with a pair of vacuum cleaners stuck to his back
[00:13:12] that's Bango's The Theory
[00:13:14] putting science to the test
[00:13:18] so Ed Booth was the series producer
[00:13:20] on it and Dermot Caulfield
[00:13:22] was the exec on it, I got in touch with both
[00:13:24] to just get a bit more background
[00:13:26] about it
[00:13:28] and Dermot gave me some brilliant information
[00:13:30] so he was saying that Jay Hunt
[00:13:32] had taken over BBC One
[00:13:34] and wanted a science
[00:13:36] stable mate for Top Gear
[00:13:38] a fun gang show that didn't talk down to the audience
[00:13:40] about complicated content
[00:13:42] but delivered it in a fast and fun way
[00:13:44] she said it needed to be multi-generational
[00:13:46] viewing and full of action
[00:13:48] they were banned actually
[00:13:50] from mentioning Tomorrow's World
[00:13:52] but that was pretty much kind of their starting point
[00:13:54] it was set up to be a place to have a fun science and tech conversation
[00:13:58] with the nation
[00:14:00] and I feel like they absolutely succeeded
[00:14:02] in doing that
[00:14:04] they nailed it, in my opinion
[00:14:06] but I think you've touched on something there
[00:14:08] which is one of the ways it was different
[00:14:10] from Tomorrow's World
[00:14:12] and that is, I think the word science
[00:14:14] there's a lot more science
[00:14:16] pure science in Bango's The Theory
[00:14:18] than there ever was in Tomorrow's World
[00:14:20] which was a fantastic show
[00:14:22] it was more a tech show than a science show
[00:14:24] or at least that was always my impression of it
[00:14:26] like a tech current affairs show
[00:14:28] so it was very different
[00:14:30] and the four of them
[00:14:32] the four of those presenters and how they gelled
[00:14:34] you can just see it
[00:14:36] that they have fun together
[00:14:38] and it really worked
[00:14:40] so choosing the presenters
[00:14:42] and getting the presenters right was the biggest challenge
[00:14:44] and Dermot talks about that as well
[00:14:46] they actually had 20
[00:14:48] they kind of whittled it down to 20 people
[00:14:50] in terms of Dallas Campbell
[00:14:52] Gem Stansfield and Liz Bonin
[00:14:54] they were just brilliant
[00:14:56] they had this energy and this liveliness to them
[00:14:58] and actually Dr Yan was like a last minute add-in
[00:15:02] he was a real wild card that they added in much later
[00:15:05] but he brought this real cheekiness
[00:15:07] is what Dermot said which you've picked up on that lady
[00:15:10] that just made it so playful
[00:15:12] and I think, I remember talking to Dallas
[00:15:15] I think it was about that boot camp
[00:15:17] I think they were all just like
[00:15:19] I mean I think they had a great time doing it
[00:15:21] but you know it's quite an unusual thing
[00:15:23] to put that much effort and time into getting it right
[00:15:25] but it was so worth it
[00:15:27] because they did get it right I think
[00:15:29] and I think
[00:15:31] when I think about each of those
[00:15:33] presenters who obviously I've now worked with
[00:15:35] and know well
[00:15:37] they just each brought something that was so different
[00:15:39] but so brilliant
[00:15:41] you've got Gem and his incredible
[00:15:43] mad
[00:15:45] his ideas are so creative and so interesting
[00:15:47] and he's so clever and he just sees the world
[00:15:49] in a way that I had never could before
[00:15:51] but then you've got someone like Dallas
[00:15:53] who didn't train as a scientist
[00:15:55] manned after my own heart obviously
[00:15:57] he can join me in the Imposter Club
[00:15:59] with our little imposter Klaxon
[00:16:01] you're not a scientist
[00:16:03] but he is just like so fascinated
[00:16:05] and he's so passionate
[00:16:07] and like you know when you speak to him
[00:16:09] he is so inspiring because he helps too
[00:16:11] and I think I realise that this
[00:16:13] continued working in the science unit
[00:16:15] and when I went on to work on Bang
[00:16:17] I realised that probably my USP
[00:16:19] was
[00:16:21] I wasn't a PhD in anything scientific
[00:16:23] like everyone else around me but in a way
[00:16:25] that made me quite good
[00:16:27] because it was like if I can understand this
[00:16:29] then hopefully everyone watching at home can understand it as well
[00:16:31] you know all those other people who don't have a PhD
[00:16:33] or hated science or didn't get it
[00:16:35] or didn't understand why it was relevant to them
[00:16:37] you know I'm like oh I'm actually well placed to do that part of this
[00:16:39] like you know obviously it was really hard
[00:16:41] work trying to get my brain up to speed
[00:16:43] with the PhD level science
[00:16:45] and I think you see that with Dallas as well
[00:16:47] he's someone who didn't train as a scientist
[00:16:49] but has this incredible passion
[00:16:51] and incredible sort of
[00:16:53] curiosity about the world
[00:16:55] and about how science shapes our world
[00:16:57] and our lines and that really translates
[00:16:59] on screen and then you've got Liz
[00:17:01] who again is super passionate about her work
[00:17:03] you know she's highly trained biologist
[00:17:05] zoologist, biologist both
[00:17:07] she did a biochemistry degree
[00:17:09] and she's a world animal biologist
[00:17:11] and she brings all of that knowledge
[00:17:13] and it's so lovely to see
[00:17:15] you know I mean obviously
[00:17:17] someone with that much knowledge
[00:17:19] and that much passion but who can talk about it in a way
[00:17:21] that feels so relatable
[00:17:23] and I think each of those presenters brought something
[00:17:25] really different and the way they worked together
[00:17:27] I was just like this is brilliant
[00:17:29] it was a great gang
[00:17:31] now this studio is pretty high
[00:17:33] now I'm going to really try and chuck this up here
[00:17:35] are you sure about this
[00:17:37] woah
[00:17:39] I didn't even hear any
[00:17:41] smashing glass though did you
[00:17:43] not only does it bounce
[00:17:45] hopefully
[00:17:47] look at that
[00:17:49] that is amazing isn't it
[00:17:51] I was really surprised when I met them all
[00:17:53] in a way
[00:17:55] for some reason I had in my head that they were
[00:17:57] being that lively only on camera
[00:17:59] and then I met them
[00:18:01] and especially for Jermy I met him
[00:18:03] and I'm like oh you're actually like this
[00:18:05] you are this enthusiastic
[00:18:07] you are this charismatic in person
[00:18:09] and I was just fascinated
[00:18:11] by that and when you meet them
[00:18:13] in person it feels like such an obvious
[00:18:15] choice because they're exactly
[00:18:17] off camera the same they are
[00:18:19] on camera they're not putting anything on
[00:18:21] that is who they are and that's what made
[00:18:23] it feel so authentically fun
[00:18:25] I think I always
[00:18:27] say when I'm talking about filmmaking
[00:18:29] and trying to make decisions about filmmaking
[00:18:31] I always say like I do think that audiences
[00:18:33] can absolutely tell
[00:18:35] that when you put truth
[00:18:37] and authenticity on camera
[00:18:39] audiences can tell they can see it
[00:18:41] they can feel it and it makes such a difference
[00:18:43] and it will make such a difference to your
[00:18:45] film then when you're trying
[00:18:47] to overly produce things and sort of
[00:18:49] force things that aren't there and I think with those guys
[00:18:51] you know they struck gold with that little team
[00:18:53] you're having so much fun off camera
[00:18:55] that you see it on camera
[00:18:57] because we had so much fun working on the show
[00:18:59] I know so good and this is something we've talked
[00:19:01] about before which is and it goes with your authenticity point now
[00:19:05] which is a happy team of people
[00:19:07] who are really enjoying
[00:19:09] the project that they're working on
[00:19:11] that will translate on camera
[00:19:13] you will see that it's an intangible thing
[00:19:15] it's the secret source that really makes some projects sing
[00:19:19] yeah absolutely and the science community
[00:19:21] so again Derma and Ed both mentioned
[00:19:23] that the science community were really
[00:19:25] really wanted science to be on
[00:19:27] prime time on BBC one
[00:19:29] and were really happy
[00:19:31] and excited with the show
[00:19:33] and they were like yeah these people
[00:19:35] because they weren't necessarily all from the
[00:19:37] science background Dallas especially
[00:19:39] but he'd done the gadget show beforehand
[00:19:41] but actually because they were also passionate about it
[00:19:43] and the way the
[00:19:45] the science was treated and prepared
[00:19:47] by the assistant producers and the directors
[00:19:49] beforehand and scripted
[00:19:51] and then the presenters could run with that
[00:19:53] then it meant that
[00:19:55] it was proper science told in a really
[00:19:57] way for a wide audience
[00:19:59] I feel like this is a confessional beat now
[00:20:01] because when I was younger I really didn't like
[00:20:03] Tomorrow's World
[00:20:05] you might not be surprised to hear that
[00:20:07] now that you know about my history
[00:20:09] and that's probably like an extremely heretical thing
[00:20:11] to say on this podcast
[00:20:13] but yeah I just really didn't
[00:20:15] I just
[00:20:17] it just didn't
[00:20:19] it just didn't hit home for me
[00:20:21] I couldn't relate to it
[00:20:23] and I think
[00:20:25] I've not done a deep to have as to why
[00:20:27] maybe I should ask my therapist
[00:20:29] but you know I think that
[00:20:31] to then
[00:20:33] but to have such an institution
[00:20:35] such a BBC institution to be trying to follow that
[00:20:37] but doing it with something that feels
[00:20:39] different and has a very different approach
[00:20:41] I think was a really brave thing to do
[00:20:43] and I actually think they absolutely nailed it
[00:20:45] like I think they did so well
[00:20:47] joking aside I don't think everyone should love
[00:20:49] Tomorrow's World and I don't think everyone should love Bango's theory
[00:20:51] but what I do think is
[00:20:53] science should be at the heart of the BBC's
[00:20:55] remit and
[00:20:57] I think it's the BBC's
[00:20:59] responsibility to have
[00:21:01] these shows, these mainstream shows
[00:21:03] that cover those topics and I do
[00:21:05] still feel like science gets something of a raw deal
[00:21:07] on television even today
[00:21:09] and I know that maybe it doesn't make as much
[00:21:11] money as other genres
[00:21:13] but there should always be a place for a Tomorrow's World
[00:21:15] or a Bango's theory in a slot
[00:21:17] that can be family viewing
[00:21:19] and that can appeal to everyone and I think it's a shame
[00:21:21] but again we don't have anything like it today
[00:21:23] No, because horizon's not there
[00:21:25] in the same capacity either
[00:21:27] and it has real
[00:21:29] and measurable impact
[00:21:31] so for Bang they did the road shows
[00:21:33] which you were part of Natalie
[00:21:35] they did all the teacher packs
[00:21:37] so that all the educational side of things
[00:21:39] they had a huge online
[00:21:41] part of the show and Simon Mackie
[00:21:43] was part of that team
[00:21:45] and sent over some stats
[00:21:47] so they had Doctor Who was obviously huge
[00:21:49] and big as well and Top Gear
[00:21:51] but then Bango's theory is the fourth top
[00:21:53] website for viewers
[00:21:55] for individual viewers coming
[00:21:57] and checking out the website and they did so much
[00:21:59] around making special content
[00:22:01] for the website and special
[00:22:03] Doctor Yan videos
[00:22:05] people could ask him questions
[00:22:07] that really engaged the younger
[00:22:09] viewers then into
[00:22:11] science which is the big thing that Alex
[00:22:13] and I have been talking about a lot
[00:22:15] is how do we bring younger viewers
[00:22:17] science content because is it through
[00:22:19] TV or are they all going
[00:22:21] to see it online these days
[00:22:23] and it's just amazing that
[00:22:25] there are still people
[00:22:27] who will tweet Dallas
[00:22:29] that they've gone into science and just
[00:22:31] finished a science degree because
[00:22:33] they were really excited about a Bango's
[00:22:35] theory road show that they went to
[00:22:37] and they saw this cool experiment
[00:22:39] and then they loved science more and went on to study it
[00:22:41] real measurable effects of having
[00:22:43] stable science shows
[00:22:45] on major channels that everyone can access
[00:22:47] and are brilliant
[00:22:49] as well because Bango was brilliant
[00:22:51] for me I actually really
[00:22:53] loved working
[00:22:55] in the campaigns and events department
[00:22:57] because
[00:22:59] what I got to do which I rarely
[00:23:01] get to do now that I'm making films
[00:23:03] was I got to go out and meet the people
[00:23:05] who were actually watching the films
[00:23:07] we used to go on tour with the Bango's
[00:23:09] theory road show and we take Dallas
[00:23:11] and German Liz and Doctor Yan and we'd tour
[00:23:13] the country every summer like every weekend
[00:23:15] over the summer we'd be in a different town in the UK
[00:23:17] and we'd turn up on like the Thursday
[00:23:19] put these huge marquees up or like turn up
[00:23:21] in a theatre and like deck it all out and
[00:23:23] we'd have this stage show where they like all the
[00:23:25] presenters came on stage and they did experiments
[00:23:27] generally blew things up and did all kinds
[00:23:29] of crazy stuff and then outside of that we'd
[00:23:31] have this massive hall through like
[00:23:33] with full of all these experiments that people could do
[00:23:35] themselves and there'd be all these like scientific
[00:23:37] partners you know from different scientific institutions
[00:23:39] who would come and help people to like engage
[00:23:41] science in every different kind of topic
[00:23:43] within science you know it was so broad
[00:24:05] and it was so interesting
[00:24:07] seeing that experience
[00:24:09] that kids were having of kind of they'd come
[00:24:11] and they'd see the presenters and they were
[00:24:13] like obviously like star-struck seeing these
[00:24:15] presenters and like they loved it so much
[00:24:17] but then they'd also get to go and try it
[00:24:19] for themselves and they and I think
[00:24:21] that was so influential for people
[00:24:23] to get to do science that's cool
[00:24:25] and fun and unusual and unexpected
[00:24:27] and yet me and
[00:24:29] David are always you know he constantly
[00:24:31] sends me these tweets which is like
[00:24:33] you know here's little James
[00:24:35] who's went to the Bango's theory road show
[00:24:37] 20 years ago and now he's just finished his
[00:24:39] PhD in brain science or something
[00:24:41] and you're like wow like this
[00:24:43] had a real effect on people and I think
[00:24:45] you know when you're a
[00:24:47] program maker
[00:24:49] you're so much further removed from the audience
[00:24:51] and you know now
[00:24:53] I'll make a film and it'll go out on TV
[00:24:55] and maybe someone will
[00:24:57] tweet about it or maybe my mom
[00:24:59] usually will just email me and be like
[00:25:01] I'll watch your film or she'll be like I just watched the credits at the end
[00:25:03] that's all your name
[00:25:05] and I'll watch any of the rest of it
[00:25:07] so it's kind of like
[00:25:09] you don't necessarily know
[00:25:11] whether that film
[00:25:13] is having an impact in the world or not
[00:25:15] and you know I
[00:25:17] have worked on a really broad range of films
[00:25:19] in my time some
[00:25:21] science related and some completely not
[00:25:23] and actually I tend to choose
[00:25:25] my projects
[00:25:27] based on
[00:25:29] I feel like I have stuff to say about the world
[00:25:31] and I want my films to
[00:25:33] be more important or to explore I suppose
[00:25:35] what it is that makes us human
[00:25:37] makes us who we are
[00:25:39] what makes us tick and how can we better understand
[00:25:41] you know who we are in our world around us
[00:25:43] and as a result
[00:25:45] I have made films like I made a film for horizon
[00:25:47] about suicide prevention
[00:25:49] and I was so nervous
[00:25:51] about that going out because
[00:25:53] it was a topic that was really close to my heart
[00:25:55] like personally very important to me
[00:25:57] but also
[00:25:59] it's a topic you really have to get right on
[00:26:01] on TV because it's
[00:26:03] such a sensitive area to be
[00:26:05] getting into
[00:26:07] and there were many many conversations with
[00:26:09] you know BBC Edpole about what you can and can't say
[00:26:11] and what you can and can't show
[00:26:13] which is really really important
[00:26:15] so by the time it was finally going out I was
[00:26:17] absolutely terrified I was like oh my gosh
[00:26:19] I hope this is helpful and not
[00:26:21] a negative experience for people
[00:26:23] because people everywhere who have had
[00:26:25] experiences with suicide or know somebody who has
[00:26:27] and actually
[00:26:29] when that film went out I really vividly
[00:26:31] remember I was filming
[00:26:33] a new documentary about the Met Police
[00:26:35] and I was in the back of a police car
[00:26:37] and we'd
[00:26:39] it was like so it must have been 10 o'clock at night
[00:26:41] we'd stop for a tea break
[00:26:43] we were on a night shift and I was sitting in the back of the police car
[00:26:45] chatting to my police officers that I was filming with
[00:26:47] and people started texting me being like
[00:26:49] oh have you seen Twitter? Have you seen Twitter?
[00:26:51] because your film's just gone out and I was like oh gosh
[00:26:53] and actually on Twitter there were just loads of messages
[00:26:55] from people saying I'm so glad that someone
[00:26:57] was taking the time to actually look at the science of
[00:26:59] suicide prevention and it's
[00:27:01] bringing me hope and it's made me
[00:27:03] convinced me to reach out to someone
[00:27:05] and it's convinced and like if anyone needs
[00:27:07] to talk then I'm here please contact me
[00:27:09] and there was this like real response
[00:27:11] which I
[00:27:13] was both like utterly
[00:27:15] relieved that it was
[00:27:17] people had found it helpful and utterly
[00:27:19] thankful to have had that opportunity to try and help
[00:27:21] people but that
[00:27:23] is a really rare you know example
[00:27:25] most of the time we make a film and it goes out
[00:27:27] and we've got no idea what people think about it
[00:27:29] but it's interesting actually
[00:27:31] you know both that film and
[00:27:33] and bang science TV
[00:27:35] both of them are science TV very different types
[00:27:37] of science TV but having really
[00:27:39] tangible impacts on people's lives
[00:27:41] and I do think
[00:27:43] you know
[00:27:45] I wish we as filmmakers
[00:27:47] and other people within the filmmaking
[00:27:49] process you know the execs and the commissioners and the producers
[00:27:51] I wish we had more opportunity
[00:27:53] to talk to the people who watch our films
[00:27:55] and find out about the effect that they have on them
[00:27:57] because I think we would learn so much
[00:27:59] I learned so much just from
[00:28:01] spending my summers chatting to the people who watch Bang is a theory you know
[00:28:03] and I think it's a really
[00:28:05] important part I think we should do more of that
[00:28:07] definitely I mean it's key
[00:28:09] that science isn't done
[00:28:11] in some white ivory
[00:28:13] tower in a university or a lab
[00:28:15] with people with white lab coats
[00:28:17] on which is the image
[00:28:19] we always get yeah and the exactly
[00:28:21] it's the image we're always delivered
[00:28:23] white lab coat right as a scientist
[00:28:25] someone with a pointy head everyone listen up
[00:28:27] you know
[00:28:29] it's about things that
[00:28:31] affect you and me in our everyday lives
[00:28:33] can make our lives better
[00:28:35] and it's about storytelling
[00:28:37] and it's about people with passion and the more we realise that
[00:28:39] the better we'll all be off
[00:28:41] yeah definitely
[00:28:43] so the interesting thing
[00:28:45] with Dermot Calford who was the exec on the show
[00:28:47] when I asked him also about the show
[00:28:49] he said that staff was a really big factor
[00:28:51] and he said he wanted a young hungry
[00:28:53] team that would make mistakes but felt
[00:28:55] he felt the risks were worth it
[00:28:57] and he wanted this kind of can do
[00:28:59] attitude
[00:29:01] and behind his desk was a sign that said
[00:29:03] better to be a pirate than
[00:29:05] join the navy so it makes
[00:29:07] total sense that he would hire you
[00:29:09] who has also
[00:29:11] a can do attitude though
[00:29:13] absolutely you do
[00:29:15] and it doesn't matter that's the point is
[00:29:17] our chat with Ed Booth
[00:29:19] also shows that
[00:29:21] he doesn't care if he wants to do
[00:29:23] something he will do it and it doesn't matter if you fail
[00:29:25] I think that's really important
[00:29:27] for all of us
[00:29:29] did Dermot say it was he wanted people who made mistakes
[00:29:31] is that why you were hired
[00:29:33] I was wondering when that was going to come up
[00:29:35] do you want to know
[00:29:37] when I started working on Bangor's theory
[00:29:39] it was my first job in TV
[00:29:41] and I had one
[00:29:43] of those moments where I was like
[00:29:45] my goodness I think I messed up
[00:29:47] so badly
[00:29:49] and I was
[00:29:51] so stressed but still
[00:29:53] one of the most stressful times
[00:29:55] of my life so
[00:29:57] one of the episodes that I was working on
[00:29:59] was this episode about fuel
[00:30:01] and so each of the presenters was
[00:30:03] tasked with making a different type of
[00:30:05] fuel
[00:30:07] to then Dallas and Jem were going to have a motorbike race
[00:30:09] across the beach in Kent
[00:30:11] somewhere that we felt
[00:30:13] each of their motorbikes was going to be powered by different fuels
[00:30:15] so I think
[00:30:17] Jem was powered by biogas
[00:30:19] and I think Dallas was powered by
[00:30:21] bioethanol which we were making ourselves
[00:30:23] all of it was being made ourselves
[00:30:25] and I was in charge
[00:30:27] of trying to make this
[00:30:29] happen and help us to make fuel
[00:30:31] and all this stuff and in fact
[00:30:33] I think I was fermenting apples underneath
[00:30:35] your desk hate dooly for quite some months
[00:30:37] you were fermenting
[00:30:39] was it apples I feel like it was a different vegetable
[00:30:41] it was just not enough sugar in a
[00:30:43] sweet
[00:30:45] it's just a reminder of quite how glamorous
[00:30:47] television is
[00:30:49] and you know why that is
[00:30:51] we had to use Kate Dooly's desk because for some
[00:30:53] bizarre reason the BBC facilities manager wouldn't
[00:30:55] let us store two crates
[00:30:57] of slowly fermenting apple juice
[00:30:59] in the facilities like Boiler cupboard
[00:31:01] for some insane reason
[00:31:03] so apparently it was really hot under my desk
[00:31:05] but I was furiously
[00:31:07] working away typing so fast that it was
[00:31:09] particularly hot there
[00:31:11] they thought that me putting two gallons of apple juice
[00:31:13] in there Boiler cupboard might be a bit of a health and safety risk
[00:31:15] apparently so I put it under Kate Dooly's desk
[00:31:17] and it was there for months so we sort of
[00:31:19] fermented this apple juice into cider
[00:31:21] and then
[00:31:23] I had to basically make sure
[00:31:25] that we could make our own
[00:31:27] cider into essentially brandy and then
[00:31:29] bioethanol and blah blah and then put it in this motorbike
[00:31:31] and so I had to
[00:31:33] so it turns out obviously to
[00:31:35] make your own liquor, hard liquor
[00:31:37] to be in touch with HMRC
[00:31:39] because there's lots of rules and laws
[00:31:41] about making your own hard liquor
[00:31:43] you can make your own cider but you can't make your own hard liquor
[00:31:45] and so I phoned up the
[00:31:47] HMRC press office obviously
[00:31:49] and I was chatting to them and I spoke to this guy
[00:31:51] and he was really really helpful
[00:31:53] and he was like yeah yeah don't think this would be a problem blah blah blah
[00:31:55] and I was like great and this was kind of
[00:31:57] before Christmas
[00:31:59] and he was like yeah I'll double check
[00:32:01] but I think it all sounds fine and I'll come back to you if there's any problems
[00:32:03] so this is like two weeks before Christmas
[00:32:05] he didn't come back to me I was like cool this is fine
[00:32:07] we all go on Christmas holidays we come back from Christmas
[00:32:09] we're gonna take this
[00:32:11] cider that I've made and we've
[00:32:13] found this man in Devon who has
[00:32:15] an artisanal brandy
[00:32:17] distillery and he's
[00:32:19] gonna let us use his antique
[00:32:21] artisanal still to put
[00:32:23] our frankly terrible
[00:32:25] apple cider through to make it into
[00:32:27] you know bioethanol liquor
[00:32:29] and yeah I got back from Christmas
[00:32:31] I waited a couple of days because he
[00:32:33] was out of office so the
[00:32:35] owner had to speak to him the day before we were due to shoot this
[00:32:37] and
[00:32:39] he was like no it's absolutely no way you can do that
[00:32:41] it's breaking the law if you do this
[00:32:43] tomorrow we will have to go down
[00:32:45] to this poor farmer and take his liquor license away
[00:32:47] and all this goes up and I literally
[00:32:49] it's one of those moments when you're like okay my stomach has
[00:32:51] dropped out the bottom
[00:32:53] of my person and I
[00:32:55] this is my first ever job in TV
[00:32:57] and I think I might have messed up so badly
[00:32:59] that I'm never gonna come back from this
[00:33:01] what I did have in my back pocket is my
[00:33:03] slight OCD attention to detail
[00:33:05] and what I could do is I could stay on
[00:33:07] the phone to that man and I was like can I actually quote you
[00:33:09] HMRC like
[00:33:11] legislation 8.1.9
[00:33:13] paragraph 2 it says
[00:33:15] if it's for a scientific purpose then you are
[00:33:17] allowed to do X-rays and basically I ended up quoting
[00:33:19] HMRC legislation back at this poor man
[00:33:21] until he just backed down and was like okay it's fine
[00:33:23] you can do it yeah it's fine
[00:33:25] just get off the phone please
[00:33:27] please stop quoting legislation at me
[00:33:29] okay you've done your research and you basically know this clause
[00:33:31] better than I do so it's fine okay you can do it
[00:33:33] and I was like oh my god
[00:33:35] I think we've all been there
[00:33:37] in situations like that though haven't we
[00:33:39] there is something about television
[00:33:41] something unique about television where
[00:33:43] you find yourself in the most
[00:33:45] ridiculous scenario
[00:33:47] particularly when you're young
[00:33:49] in the early stages of your career in TV
[00:33:51] there is a healthy dose of
[00:33:53] fake it until you make it because
[00:33:55] how else could you possibly have prepared for that series
[00:33:57] of events there's nothing you could ever have done
[00:33:59] that prepared you for that
[00:34:01] yeah I just knew if that shoot had to be
[00:34:03] cancelled I was going to be in deep
[00:34:05] doo doo and I was like
[00:34:07] you are allowed to sweat
[00:34:09] I was just like this is an absolute
[00:34:11] disaster and I was just like
[00:34:13] I can't let this fail
[00:34:19] right this is the scenario
[00:34:21] four days ago an original submarine
[00:34:23] hit an obstruction five miles
[00:34:25] off the coast of Arendt-Aug in Norway
[00:34:27] now initial reports suggest
[00:34:29] there are survivors
[00:34:31] but there's little chance of escaping
[00:34:33] one piece that was stuck in the submarine
[00:34:35] at the bottom of the sea so their best
[00:34:37] best is to spit it out
[00:34:39] and wait for rescue
[00:34:41] one of the only vessels
[00:34:43] capable of making a rescue attempt
[00:34:45] is the Royal Navy's new
[00:34:47] NSRS Rescue Sub
[00:34:49] and this is it
[00:34:51] I got a behind the scenes story from
[00:34:53] the film of when there's
[00:34:55] films in this submarine
[00:34:57] off Norway
[00:34:59] this sub that can save people
[00:35:01] coming out of other subs that get stuck
[00:35:03] at the bottom of the sea
[00:35:05] so the team had parked the car
[00:35:07] in the car park at the hotel
[00:35:09] and then got all their kit into the rooms
[00:35:11] had gone to sleep for the night early start
[00:35:13] as things are sometimes on filming days
[00:35:15] so 4am they're down trying
[00:35:17] to get the car out of the car park
[00:35:19] and the car park is locked because the car park doesn't
[00:35:21] open for another couple of hours
[00:35:23] and so
[00:35:25] the poor AP is like
[00:35:27] oh shit what are we going to do
[00:35:29] but the director, the fabulous Stephen Mizzles
[00:35:31] just literally goes out into the road
[00:35:33] and stops the police car
[00:35:35] shouting and I quote
[00:35:37] we're the BBC we need to get to the port
[00:35:39] the police being
[00:35:41] Norwegian policemen go yeah sure
[00:35:43] hop in we will get you there
[00:35:45] and they did
[00:35:47] love Norway guys
[00:35:49] also I think you'd have to be quite brave
[00:35:51] to say no to Stephen Mizzles
[00:35:53] we are the BBC
[00:35:55] can I let you into a little secret
[00:35:57] this is a little bit naughty
[00:35:59] but I to this day
[00:36:01] I've not now worked at the BBC in any capacity
[00:36:03] for a few years maybe 5 years
[00:36:05] whenever I go abroad anywhere
[00:36:07] I always carry my old BBC pass
[00:36:09] just in case
[00:36:11] just in case
[00:36:13] you need to wave it at someone in some farflung corner
[00:36:15] of the world
[00:36:17] a remarkable organisation
[00:36:19] that wields an enormous amount of soft power
[00:36:21] and respect
[00:36:23] for this country
[00:36:25] and what a wonderful thing that it is
[00:36:27] and we should protect it if we can
[00:36:29] anyway let's go back
[00:36:31] to being silly now
[00:36:33] if only for Alex's
[00:36:35] or your holiday moments
[00:36:37] I said nothing about holidays
[00:36:39] I would just like to say
[00:36:41] I won't ask anymore
[00:37:16] so the series launched in July 2009
[00:37:18] and it was a big build up
[00:37:20] not least because
[00:37:22] they decided to go with quite a
[00:37:24] kind of a stunty
[00:37:26] live high risk
[00:37:28] promo how would you describe it
[00:37:30] a series of interconnected
[00:37:32] scientific experiments
[00:37:34] happening in real time
[00:37:36] yeah so they were playing on that
[00:37:38] Honda cog advert that is pretty famous
[00:37:40] and they
[00:37:42] tried to replicate that
[00:37:44] well in the rehearsals
[00:37:46] but sadly when it came to
[00:37:48] the actual live broadcast
[00:37:50] one bit didn't work
[00:37:54] classic live TV
[00:37:56] I think what's quite amazing
[00:37:58] about your story which is very different
[00:38:00] from any of the other people we've had on so far is
[00:38:02] not only are you seeing
[00:38:04] this show go out on TV
[00:38:06] for the first time
[00:38:08] you're actually essentially
[00:38:10] in the room whilst it's being made
[00:38:12] and around the corner
[00:38:14] as it's actually being shot
[00:38:16] you're kind of experiencing all sides
[00:38:18] of this production first hand
[00:38:20] yeah and I think that was one of the things
[00:38:22] I absolutely loved
[00:38:24] we would have regular meetings with the production team
[00:38:26] and so obviously Kate Dealey was there
[00:38:28] but like you know we'd go to these meetings
[00:38:30] me and my boss and they're you know
[00:38:32] we'd sit there and the production team would be like
[00:38:34] yeah so the things we're sort of thinking about
[00:38:36] is like yeah we might just like try this thing
[00:38:38] where we blow up this thing
[00:38:40] and he wants to build a swing where he can go around 360 degrees
[00:38:42] on a swing and it's basically never been done
[00:38:44] and we don't actually think it's possible
[00:38:46] but he's convinced that it is so we're going to try that
[00:38:48] and like see and they were just
[00:38:50] you would hear all these amazing ideas
[00:38:52] and these crazy things they were going to do and they're like
[00:38:54] oh yeah we're going to go and film with this car
[00:38:56] that like breaks the sound barrier or whatever it was
[00:38:58] and I would just sit there being like this is amazing
[00:39:00] like this is so fun and so interesting
[00:39:02] and that was kind of my
[00:39:04] introduction to science as a thing
[00:39:06] that's fun and not really boring
[00:39:08] that I suppose one of the things
[00:39:10] that I think bang did so well
[00:39:12] and I think really helped me
[00:39:14] to love it
[00:39:16] was it
[00:39:18] helped me to see
[00:39:20] like the science that I had learned at school
[00:39:22] which I found quite boring
[00:39:24] they helped me to see that in the real world and in my life
[00:39:26] so in this episode
[00:39:28] the section where Liz
[00:39:30] goes in that submarine and goes down
[00:39:32] and it docks onto the top of a submarine
[00:39:34] essentially using I don't know
[00:39:36] giant suction cup would we call it
[00:39:38] so what it was
[00:39:40] and some rubber
[00:39:42] and I was literally like you know I was thinking about it after I watched it yesterday
[00:39:44] and I was like this is one of the reasons that I loved this show
[00:39:46] because essentially
[00:39:48] even as a six year old you know you've used a suction cup
[00:39:50] to stick something to the window
[00:39:52] or like you know to stick something to the side of the bath
[00:39:54] to keep your toys in and that kind of thing
[00:39:56] most people in the country have probably used one of those suction cups at some point
[00:39:58] and so
[00:40:00] you have this science that is explained in simple terms
[00:40:02] and in ways that I could understand
[00:40:04] but then you also have the biggest
[00:40:06] personal story around it
[00:40:08] the human story around it which is
[00:40:10] if you are a submariner
[00:40:12] and you are trapped at the bottom of the sea and you cannot escape
[00:40:14] and your life is at risk
[00:40:16] essentially a giant suction cup is going to save your life
[00:40:18] and for me that's what did it
[00:40:20] like for someone who is interested in human stories
[00:40:22] and like
[00:40:24] high stakes of like you know someone could die
[00:40:26] and then you throw in a suction cup
[00:40:28] and some water pressure and you're like
[00:40:30] that for me is interesting
[00:40:32] and I think Bangers do that so well
[00:40:34] on so many different occasions
[00:40:36] yeah it was definitely they explained the science
[00:40:38] in a really comprehensive
[00:40:40] but not lofty
[00:40:42] way it was just a really normal
[00:40:44] with having a chat
[00:40:46] down the pub in the playground
[00:40:48] wherever in a really simple
[00:40:50] and energetic
[00:40:52] way where there's
[00:40:54] real drama of you know Liz
[00:40:56] is actually stood on the sub
[00:40:58] with 85 meters of water
[00:41:00] above her which
[00:41:02] the drama and her excitement shines through
[00:41:04] all those elements as well as the kind of fun
[00:41:06] fast cutting
[00:41:08] cool music shooting style
[00:41:10] that all just came together
[00:41:12] so brilliantly
[00:41:14] to make the show fantastically
[00:41:16] energetic and fun
[00:41:18] and lively and young
[00:41:20] but it never strays into the cheesy
[00:41:22] or the patronising either
[00:41:24] you know I mean obviously we're coming at this slightly differently
[00:41:26] in that we both do have science backgrounds
[00:41:28] but re-watching it I didn't think
[00:41:30] oh this is dumb down or this is
[00:41:32] talking down to me a little bit
[00:41:34] so they've hit the tone of it
[00:41:36] really spot on
[00:41:38] that it can kind of draw people in from any
[00:41:40] background really
[00:41:42] and there was a lot of work that went on
[00:41:44] having made the show and I'm sure Nat you'd agree
[00:41:46] there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes
[00:41:48] when you're working on the scripts
[00:41:50] to make sure
[00:41:52] you get as much science in there as you can
[00:41:54] but you're making sure that it's so clear
[00:41:56] and that's where
[00:41:58] as you were saying Nat your experience of not
[00:42:00] having the science background actually gave you
[00:42:02] a massive advantage
[00:42:04] is because I with a science background might put too much
[00:42:06] you know things in there and go
[00:42:08] well actually no I've not explained it clearly
[00:42:10] like the thing that I think
[00:42:12] enabled me to make science TV
[00:42:14] despite not really knowing
[00:42:16] very much about science still
[00:42:18] in that job you know when you're a researcher
[00:42:20] or an AP on bangers of theory
[00:42:22] your job is literally to phone up people who've spent 30 years
[00:42:24] doing one thing and be like
[00:42:26] can you just explain that to me in sort of
[00:42:28] 5 or 10 minutes
[00:42:30] we're going to have 5 or 10 minutes to explain your life's work
[00:42:32] and you know that is quite
[00:42:34] the challenge and
[00:42:36] I think for me that's really where
[00:42:38] your skills as a storyteller
[00:42:40] come in because you know for me it was
[00:42:42] like I
[00:42:44] could never understand your 30 years of research
[00:42:46] but what I can understand
[00:42:48] is the story that we can tell about
[00:42:50] our world as a result of that research
[00:42:52] and I think that as a science filmmaker
[00:42:54] is what you're always trying to do
[00:42:56] you're trying to translate this body of research
[00:42:58] into a story we can tell ourselves
[00:43:00] about the world as we understand it now
[00:43:02] now re-watching it
[00:43:04] knowing what you know now
[00:43:06] what did you notice about
[00:43:08] how they told stories, what else
[00:43:10] fascinated you and thought yeah that really worked
[00:43:12] I think one of the things
[00:43:14] that I found most challenging
[00:43:16] actually
[00:43:18] about that series as someone who's trying to make it
[00:43:20] was it was always like what is the most creative
[00:43:22] what is the most sort of
[00:43:24] engaging and interactive
[00:43:26] way that we can tell this story
[00:43:28] and so sometimes it was like
[00:43:30] placing ducks on a world map
[00:43:32] that had been drawn on the sand but sometimes it was like
[00:43:34] I remember doing work experience
[00:43:36] on Bang at some point where
[00:43:38] the wonderful Alex Freeman was making
[00:43:40] a film about
[00:43:42] I think it was about Thelomies
[00:43:44] and she'd dressed people up as sort of
[00:43:46] different parts of DNA
[00:43:48] I think there were school children and she'd like
[00:43:50] dress them up as different colours to represent different parts of DNA
[00:43:52] and they were all running around this school playground
[00:43:54] and her and the cameraman were on a cherry picker
[00:43:56] overhanging this playground, filming these kids running around
[00:43:58] and I was like never in a million years
[00:44:00] would I have thought of dressing tiny
[00:44:02] school children up as Thelomies or DNA
[00:44:04] whatever it was
[00:44:06] but I think that was something that
[00:44:08] I really had to learn
[00:44:10] and I'm really glad that I went through
[00:44:12] that
[00:44:14] baptism of fire in a way
[00:44:16] because as a filmmaker now
[00:44:18] it's a brilliant skill to have
[00:44:20] to think well what is the most
[00:44:22] creative way to tell this
[00:44:24] story and how
[00:44:26] what does this story require actually in terms of
[00:44:28] creative approach and narrative
[00:44:30] and story and character
[00:44:32] you were always challenged on Bang
[00:44:34] to get outside of the box and kick it over
[00:44:36] to the other side of the room, you know, you just like
[00:44:38] try and do something as mad as possible basically
[00:44:40] How can you make it bigger?
[00:44:42] Because you're speaking to the audience
[00:44:44] and everything is in service of the audience isn't it?
[00:44:46] Like we're speaking to families, we're speaking to kids
[00:44:48] how can we make this the most
[00:44:50] engaging, fun, silly whatever it is
[00:44:52] that we can. Can I just say I love the ending
[00:44:54] where they're about
[00:44:56] to like, I just loved how they ended
[00:44:58] the film like that, it was like this big
[00:45:00] hilarious fun cliffhanger
[00:45:02] so Dallas has shown them
[00:45:04] the other guys this kind of
[00:45:06] it's like silly putty but it's silicone
[00:45:08] and you can
[00:45:10] if you move it slowly
[00:45:12] it's kind of like silly putty but
[00:45:14] you hit it hard and
[00:45:16] non-ut only fluid
[00:45:18] Thank you non-ut only fluid
[00:45:20] hashtag
[00:45:22] why am I explaining it
[00:45:24] anyway
[00:45:26] anything from Bang
[00:45:28] so anyway, they wrap it around Dallas's hand
[00:45:30] and then, you know, Liz
[00:45:32] kind of sheepishly hits it with kind of
[00:45:34] like a little wooden mallet
[00:45:36] he's like no no I didn't feel a thing, you're like oh yeah
[00:45:38] this is great and then Gem suddenly brings out
[00:45:40] this epic metal hammer
[00:45:42] and you just see it's going to come down
[00:45:44] on the and then they cut
[00:45:46] but that's a, it was a post-credits gag as well
[00:45:48] which is pretty unusual
[00:45:50] and actually I do think that
[00:45:52] with the wrong presenters stuff like that would just be cringe
[00:45:54] and it wasn't cringe, it was funny
[00:45:56] yeah they nailed it
[00:45:58] because in that studio they were always messing around
[00:46:00] I mean everyone was messing around in that studio
[00:46:02] don't you remember the studio, Kate?
[00:46:04] I never went to the studio
[00:46:06] it's one of the big disappointments of my life
[00:46:08] when I first went to the Bang studio
[00:46:10] I made the VTs
[00:46:12] which are the video segments
[00:46:14] that were pre-made
[00:46:16] the studio was outside Bedford
[00:46:18] in an old, I think it was an X aircraft hanger
[00:46:20] and let me tell you
[00:46:22] it was cold in the winter
[00:46:24] it was so cold
[00:46:26] but it was just, you know, it was absolute chaos
[00:46:28] it was brilliant, it was such a good studio
[00:46:30] because they were always trying to think up studio
[00:46:32] gags and stunts and things like that
[00:46:34] and there's the very famous time where they
[00:46:36] would have a car up using Velcro
[00:46:38] except maybe there wasn't
[00:46:40] quite enough Velcro
[00:46:42] it was all a little bit stressful
[00:46:44] studio days were always very fun
[00:46:46] very long, quite stressful
[00:46:48] but very fun
[00:46:50] but it was the team, what I think
[00:46:52] Dermot and Ed who ran the show
[00:46:54] did really well, ran the show for the first couple of series
[00:46:56] what they did really well was bring together
[00:46:58] well a band of pirates
[00:47:00] basically, a load of people
[00:47:02] who had
[00:47:04] or hadn't got science backgrounds
[00:47:06] that were fun
[00:47:08] and creative
[00:47:10] and what I love is that
[00:47:12] we are still on a WhatsApp group today
[00:47:14] with everyone on that team
[00:47:16] and we still meet up and have drinks
[00:47:18] and that happens very rarely in TV
[00:47:20] and
[00:47:22] we still have a lot of fun
[00:47:24] we still message each other weekly
[00:47:26] and it's brilliant
[00:47:28] we just have that real bond of having worked on that show
[00:47:30] so creatively
[00:47:32] together, like we would all muck in
[00:47:34] no matter what happened
[00:47:36] we would all just get involved and help out
[00:47:38] and do anything anyone needed
[00:47:40] I will end with the question we always end with
[00:47:42] which is what Bang goes the theory
[00:47:44] means to you
[00:47:46] mmmmm
[00:47:48] Bang goes the theory means a huge amount to me
[00:47:50] because it
[00:47:52] I mean not to put too far on a point
[00:47:54] it changed my life because it was my first ever job in TV
[00:47:56] and
[00:47:58] from there I've obviously gone on to make
[00:48:00] all kinds of films and all kinds of places with all kinds of people
[00:48:02] and I've been so lucky to have an incredibly
[00:48:04] diverse
[00:48:06] and exciting and interesting career
[00:48:08] and without Kate Dooly
[00:48:10] and Bang goes the theory wouldn't have happened
[00:48:12] I was really unclear when I was younger
[00:48:14] about what I wanted to do and what I could do
[00:48:16] and what I was good at
[00:48:18] and I was
[00:48:20] always keen to try things
[00:48:22] and I never thought I'd be able to try
[00:48:24] TV, I never thought I'd be able to do it
[00:48:26] but obviously with encouragement I did try
[00:48:28] and I found out that I loved it
[00:48:30] I think it's not just that it was my first
[00:48:32] job in TV
[00:48:34] but it was my first job in TV
[00:48:36] with a very specific group of people which Kate has
[00:48:38] sort of referred to previously because
[00:48:40] it really was like a family
[00:48:42] and I think one of the things that is so
[00:48:44] important about the way that that show was run
[00:48:46] was that it was a family
[00:48:48] everyone was supportive of each other
[00:48:50] and it was okay to fail
[00:48:52] and I think to have that
[00:48:54] as someone who's starting their career
[00:48:56] to be in that environment was
[00:48:58] so impactful and so
[00:49:00] important
[00:49:02] and it's really interesting I went to
[00:49:04] a couple of years ago in New York it was a screening of Elvis
[00:49:06] Elvis had just come out and Baz Lema
[00:49:08] was doing a Q&A afterwards and he
[00:49:10] was talking about his process like when he's
[00:49:12] making films, when he's working with actors and all this kind of stuff
[00:49:14] and he talked about how as
[00:49:16] a director or as a team leader I suppose
[00:49:18] he thinks it's so important
[00:49:20] to get the best performances from people
[00:49:22] you're trying to encourage them to play
[00:49:24] effectively and I think that was exactly the same on Bang
[00:49:26] it was like you're trying to encourage people to play
[00:49:28] and what he said was what you need
[00:49:30] to understand as a director or as a team leader
[00:49:32] is that children can't
[00:49:34] play unless they feel safe
[00:49:36] when he said that I just wanted to jump
[00:49:38] and shout and be like thank you so much
[00:49:40] you've articulated this thing that I think is so important
[00:49:42] for us as creatives and as people who make films
[00:49:44] and sort of do anything in the creative industries
[00:49:46] is if you want
[00:49:48] people to be the best that they can be
[00:49:50] to come up with the most creative ideas
[00:49:52] to make the most
[00:49:54] and create an impactful films that they can
[00:49:56] you have to create an environment
[00:49:58] where it's okay to fail
[00:50:00] because if it's not okay to fail
[00:50:02] if it's not okay to be vulnerable and obviously I'm referring to Brinne Brown
[00:50:04] who I absolutely love
[00:50:06] she's an incredible researcher
[00:50:08] who looks at shame and vulnerability and all that stuff
[00:50:10] and she talks a huge amount about
[00:50:12] you need to be able to
[00:50:14] be vulnerable and to fail
[00:50:16] in order to achieve incredible things
[00:50:18] and to
[00:50:20] do your best work and I think
[00:50:22] what was so brilliant about Bang
[00:50:24] which you don't get on every TV production
[00:50:26] spoiler alert it's not normal
[00:50:28] is that you know the leadership there
[00:50:30] and the whole team
[00:50:32] were supportive of each other and
[00:50:34] had your back
[00:50:36] and I think that makes such a difference
[00:50:38] and I think you see it on the screen
[00:50:40] like you were saying earlier I think it just is so obvious
[00:50:42] from the quality of the content
[00:50:44] that it produced
[00:50:46] and how enduring it is
[00:50:48] how successful it was
[00:50:50] and I think a huge amount of that is down
[00:50:52] to the environment and the little family that was created
[00:50:54] like we are still a bizarre family
[00:50:56] like we're still you know
[00:50:58] got crazy uncle Ed
[00:51:00] who are we all love
[00:51:02] yeah and just you know
[00:51:04] we have got all kinds of weird cousins
[00:51:06] and brothers and sisters in our little family
[00:51:08] but it's great and you know
[00:51:10] Bang is through means a huge amount to me certainly
[00:51:12] but I think also to a lot of other people
[00:51:14] in that gang
[00:51:16] so we're bringing it in
[00:51:18] thank you so much for having it
[00:51:20] thank you for the walk down memory lane
[00:51:22] and if anyone else needs a Kate Dooly moment
[00:51:24] she is an incredible career coach
[00:51:26] supportive then you know get in touch at Tortoise Pod
[00:51:28] everyone needs a Kate Dooly in their life